Imaginosaurus Reserectus
Muirsical Conversation With Albert Bouchard
Muirsical Conversation With Albert Bouchard
In 2023 Albert Bouchard, a founder member of Blue Öyster Cult and one of the band’s primary songwriters through the 70s and early 80s, released the final part of his Imaginos trilogy of albums.
A sweeping, Lovecraftian conceptual tale, Imaginos takes in 300 years of human history, with supernatural, other-dimensional and extra-terrestrial elements.
The beginnings of Imaginos however go back more than five-and-a-half decades to scripts and poems by producer/ manager/ journalist/ professor/ songwriter/ record executive Sandy Pearlman, who would go on to produce nine BÖC albums and co-write many of their songs.
A completed Imaginos album would have been Albert Bouchard’s solo debut in 1984, but it was rejected by the label.
Four years later however it was issued (following extensive re-recording, remixing and editing) as a Blue Öyster Cult album.
Following the passing of Sandy Pearlman in 2016 it looked like Imaginos would never be fully realised, but Albert Bouchard took it upon himself to, first, release Re Imaginos in 2020 followed by Imaginos II : Bombs Over Germany in 2022 and Imaginos III : Mutant Reformation in 2023.
Albert, who makes a welcome return to the UK in September for a run of solo shows, sat in with FabricationsHQ to talk in detail about the factors that led to him returning to the Imaginos project.
He also talked about his involvement with last ever BÖC studio album Ghost Stories, his time as a teacher, recent work as a member of The Dictators, the bigger picture of Imaginos through comic-book publication and a hint of what to expect on the upcoming tour.
A sweeping, Lovecraftian conceptual tale, Imaginos takes in 300 years of human history, with supernatural, other-dimensional and extra-terrestrial elements.
The beginnings of Imaginos however go back more than five-and-a-half decades to scripts and poems by producer/ manager/ journalist/ professor/ songwriter/ record executive Sandy Pearlman, who would go on to produce nine BÖC albums and co-write many of their songs.
A completed Imaginos album would have been Albert Bouchard’s solo debut in 1984, but it was rejected by the label.
Four years later however it was issued (following extensive re-recording, remixing and editing) as a Blue Öyster Cult album.
Following the passing of Sandy Pearlman in 2016 it looked like Imaginos would never be fully realised, but Albert Bouchard took it upon himself to, first, release Re Imaginos in 2020 followed by Imaginos II : Bombs Over Germany in 2022 and Imaginos III : Mutant Reformation in 2023.
Albert, who makes a welcome return to the UK in September for a run of solo shows, sat in with FabricationsHQ to talk in detail about the factors that led to him returning to the Imaginos project.
He also talked about his involvement with last ever BÖC studio album Ghost Stories, his time as a teacher, recent work as a member of The Dictators, the bigger picture of Imaginos through comic-book publication and a hint of what to expect on the upcoming tour.
Ross Muir: Your latest solo album, Imaginos III : Mutant Reformation, is the strongest of the Imaginos trilogy.
A bigger undertaking, this third and final installment is a musical theatre-like production in terms of the large number of musicians and guest singers involved. As is the case with all three Imaginos albums, a number of BÖC songs also play their part in the narrative.
So, first, congrats and kudos for seeing this through after all these decades, because I don’t think there were many, if any, fans who ever thought they would hear Imaginos as it was originally intended, or as close to the original concept as possible, after the sad passing Sandy Pearlman.
Albert Bouchard: Thank you. To be honest though it was a little scary, because the past four years of my life has been about doing this; working on it every day like a maniac!
Basically it took over my life; I had family life and other stuff going on, like everybody does, but as far as work, this was it; I kinda put everything else on the back burner.
But I’m happy with it, and, now that it’s done, I can go back to being full in with The Dictators and their new album, because that’s the other thing I’ve got goin' on right now.
RM: As every BÖC and Albert Bouchard fan knows, you and Sandy started working up and recording Imaginos songs from 1982 to 1984, with the goal of making it your first solo album.
Sadly that never materialised and the album was retooled, edited, remixed and released a few years later as, not wholly accurately, a BÖC album.
I’d imagine, given those difficult and frustrating events, you could not perceive of ever venturing down the Imaginos road again, so what was the catalyst that led to Re Imaginos in 2020?
AB: I would say, first of all, that when Imaginos came out as a Blue Öyster Cult album – which didn’t do that well – I thought "OK, I guess that’s it!"
My first dream was to have a hit record and my second was to have a masterpiece. We got the hit record, but here was my masterpiece, just smashed, and swept away.
But three major factors brought me back to it.
The first thing that happened was I had given some rough mixes of the original Imaginos to some fans, with the express condition that they don’t ever see the light of day because, really, those mixes belonged to Sony, so I could never put them out myself – besides the fact that some of the vocals were just what I sang as the songs were being laid down, so were pretty horrible [laughs].
The final mix versions of the songs would have been much better, but I didn’t have copies of those.
Anyway, they eventually appeared as the Imaginos Demos.
RM: Yes, rather inevitably they ended up on Youtube and, at one point, available as a free download.
AB: That’s right. So, what happened then was the fans heard them and started saying things like "Oh, I like these better than the real record!" and all that kind of stuff.
That got me thinking but, after, the difficulties with Imaginos first time around my relationship with Sandy had changed; in fact, it had gotten quite strained, to put it mildly. He wouldn’t talk to me and I wasn’t interested in talking got him. This went on for several years, and when I did finally reach out to him, he was still mad; it was a weird time.
But then, around 2010, we started communicating again through the efforts of our mutual friend Norman Prusslin, who is a Stony Brook University professor; Norman was like the go-between.
Sandy was going to come back to work and live in New York, so we made plans to get together, but at the end of 2015 he had an accident, a stroke, and went into a coma.
But I did get to visit him in hospital after he came out of the coma; he didn’t have much movement but he did seem to respond to what I was saying.
I spent two days with him at the hospital; the first day I just spoke to him and tried to cheer him up, singing some of his favourite songs, and some that he had written, stuff like that.
But on the second day I really started getting down to talking about how much I appreciated him and loved him, which we had never ever said before! He was my friend, I had known him all these years but I never told him I loved him; so I really wanted to do that.
In the process of all that I also said how sorry I was about the whole Imaginos thing, because we really wanted to have those three records, so we could have told the whole Imaginos story.
I said "you gotta get better because I promise, if you do get better, I’m gonna work on those records and put them out!" But he didn’t get better and he died in July of 2016.
And I thought, yet again, "well, I guess that’s it" because I didn’t think I could do it without him, you know?
Over the next few years I recorded three solo albums Incantation, Surrealist and It’s Christmas Again.
They didn’t really sell well, but I figured I could still go out live, play some of those songs and hopefully sell some records that way.
And part of all that was my partner in crime David Hirschberg, who was in my band playing bass and a teacher in the school where I had been working. We had been playing some of the Imaginos songs live, and David said "we should do something with these songs; we should record them; this is great stuff!"
So, at the end of 2019, we started recording some of our practices for our live shows; this was with my band that featured David and myself along with Justin Robinson on drums and Mookie Thomas on keyboards; Justin and Mookie had both been students of mine, and had since graduated.
We recorded some of the Imaginos songs and I thought "hey, that is pretty good!" Time had passed and I had a different perspective on it. Also, I had retired from school work in 2018, so had time to work on it.
And then I started recalling things from the original Imaginos recordings back in the early eighties, and remembering things like "I recall Sandy wanted to do this here, and I said no." [laughs]
But, what if I do now, what he said then? So, a lot of the Re Imaginos record was Sandy communicating with me through my memories of those times, and in my dreams.
Basically, I just followed what he had said we should do, or what I imagined him saying to do.
I’d also signed with a record company called Deko Entertainment, so that’s how Re Imaginos came about, and how it was distributed.
Once it was out, a lot of people said "OK, so, are you going to do the other two?" And I said "If this one sells then yes, I’ll do probably do them; we’ll see." Because I didn’t want to be putting out any more records that weren’t going to make any money, or cost me money [laughs].
Actually, I didn’t care if we just broke even, I just didn’t want another hole in my pocket!
Anyway, Re Imaginos comes out and it did fantastic! It got on the Billboard charts and I thought "holy crap!" And then I got my first royalty cheque and woah – this is real money! [laughs]
RM: Suddenly it got serious – and a green light for Acts Two and Three.
AB: Yeah, that was it; I now knew I was going to do the other two, and that’s exactly what I did!
A bigger undertaking, this third and final installment is a musical theatre-like production in terms of the large number of musicians and guest singers involved. As is the case with all three Imaginos albums, a number of BÖC songs also play their part in the narrative.
So, first, congrats and kudos for seeing this through after all these decades, because I don’t think there were many, if any, fans who ever thought they would hear Imaginos as it was originally intended, or as close to the original concept as possible, after the sad passing Sandy Pearlman.
Albert Bouchard: Thank you. To be honest though it was a little scary, because the past four years of my life has been about doing this; working on it every day like a maniac!
Basically it took over my life; I had family life and other stuff going on, like everybody does, but as far as work, this was it; I kinda put everything else on the back burner.
But I’m happy with it, and, now that it’s done, I can go back to being full in with The Dictators and their new album, because that’s the other thing I’ve got goin' on right now.
RM: As every BÖC and Albert Bouchard fan knows, you and Sandy started working up and recording Imaginos songs from 1982 to 1984, with the goal of making it your first solo album.
Sadly that never materialised and the album was retooled, edited, remixed and released a few years later as, not wholly accurately, a BÖC album.
I’d imagine, given those difficult and frustrating events, you could not perceive of ever venturing down the Imaginos road again, so what was the catalyst that led to Re Imaginos in 2020?
AB: I would say, first of all, that when Imaginos came out as a Blue Öyster Cult album – which didn’t do that well – I thought "OK, I guess that’s it!"
My first dream was to have a hit record and my second was to have a masterpiece. We got the hit record, but here was my masterpiece, just smashed, and swept away.
But three major factors brought me back to it.
The first thing that happened was I had given some rough mixes of the original Imaginos to some fans, with the express condition that they don’t ever see the light of day because, really, those mixes belonged to Sony, so I could never put them out myself – besides the fact that some of the vocals were just what I sang as the songs were being laid down, so were pretty horrible [laughs].
The final mix versions of the songs would have been much better, but I didn’t have copies of those.
Anyway, they eventually appeared as the Imaginos Demos.
RM: Yes, rather inevitably they ended up on Youtube and, at one point, available as a free download.
AB: That’s right. So, what happened then was the fans heard them and started saying things like "Oh, I like these better than the real record!" and all that kind of stuff.
That got me thinking but, after, the difficulties with Imaginos first time around my relationship with Sandy had changed; in fact, it had gotten quite strained, to put it mildly. He wouldn’t talk to me and I wasn’t interested in talking got him. This went on for several years, and when I did finally reach out to him, he was still mad; it was a weird time.
But then, around 2010, we started communicating again through the efforts of our mutual friend Norman Prusslin, who is a Stony Brook University professor; Norman was like the go-between.
Sandy was going to come back to work and live in New York, so we made plans to get together, but at the end of 2015 he had an accident, a stroke, and went into a coma.
But I did get to visit him in hospital after he came out of the coma; he didn’t have much movement but he did seem to respond to what I was saying.
I spent two days with him at the hospital; the first day I just spoke to him and tried to cheer him up, singing some of his favourite songs, and some that he had written, stuff like that.
But on the second day I really started getting down to talking about how much I appreciated him and loved him, which we had never ever said before! He was my friend, I had known him all these years but I never told him I loved him; so I really wanted to do that.
In the process of all that I also said how sorry I was about the whole Imaginos thing, because we really wanted to have those three records, so we could have told the whole Imaginos story.
I said "you gotta get better because I promise, if you do get better, I’m gonna work on those records and put them out!" But he didn’t get better and he died in July of 2016.
And I thought, yet again, "well, I guess that’s it" because I didn’t think I could do it without him, you know?
Over the next few years I recorded three solo albums Incantation, Surrealist and It’s Christmas Again.
They didn’t really sell well, but I figured I could still go out live, play some of those songs and hopefully sell some records that way.
And part of all that was my partner in crime David Hirschberg, who was in my band playing bass and a teacher in the school where I had been working. We had been playing some of the Imaginos songs live, and David said "we should do something with these songs; we should record them; this is great stuff!"
So, at the end of 2019, we started recording some of our practices for our live shows; this was with my band that featured David and myself along with Justin Robinson on drums and Mookie Thomas on keyboards; Justin and Mookie had both been students of mine, and had since graduated.
We recorded some of the Imaginos songs and I thought "hey, that is pretty good!" Time had passed and I had a different perspective on it. Also, I had retired from school work in 2018, so had time to work on it.
And then I started recalling things from the original Imaginos recordings back in the early eighties, and remembering things like "I recall Sandy wanted to do this here, and I said no." [laughs]
But, what if I do now, what he said then? So, a lot of the Re Imaginos record was Sandy communicating with me through my memories of those times, and in my dreams.
Basically, I just followed what he had said we should do, or what I imagined him saying to do.
I’d also signed with a record company called Deko Entertainment, so that’s how Re Imaginos came about, and how it was distributed.
Once it was out, a lot of people said "OK, so, are you going to do the other two?" And I said "If this one sells then yes, I’ll do probably do them; we’ll see." Because I didn’t want to be putting out any more records that weren’t going to make any money, or cost me money [laughs].
Actually, I didn’t care if we just broke even, I just didn’t want another hole in my pocket!
Anyway, Re Imaginos comes out and it did fantastic! It got on the Billboard charts and I thought "holy crap!" And then I got my first royalty cheque and woah – this is real money! [laughs]
RM: Suddenly it got serious – and a green light for Acts Two and Three.
AB: Yeah, that was it; I now knew I was going to do the other two, and that’s exactly what I did!
RM: Had Acts Two and Three been mapped out as thoroughly as the original Imaginos record?
AB: Well, Sandy and I had talked about what would be on the second one, but we never talked about the third one. That was the main difference between the first two and the final one – how can I wrap this up in a grand fashion, because it has to be better than the other two.
The second one was kind of rushed, but the third album took me much longer to do, about a year longer than the others in fact, but there were a lot more songs on it, too.
But that was something I really wanted to do; add more songs. I wanted to incorporate some BÖC songs that weren’t written by Sandy, like Godzilla, Take Me Away, Sole Survivor, and other songs that hadn’t originally been considered for Imaginos, like St. Cecilia and Buddha’s Knee. I felt they all could be part of the story, so the third record really evolved as I was going along.
Also, as you mentioned, a lot more people were involved in the third record, but a few who said they would perform on it, or perform on a particular song, couldn’t, because of schedules.
For example Kasim Sulton was originally going to sing a song but said "sorry Albert, I’m just too busy."
But I said "did you ever hear our version of Godzilla, because we’re doing it just like you did on your solo tour," to which he said "how did I do it on my solo tour?" because he had forgotten [laughter]
This was when we were all in London, when Joe and I were playing as the Bouchard Brothers, so I said "look, we’ll be playing it tonight, why don’t you come over and check it out?" He did and he loved it.
He wrote to me later and said "I can’t sing that other song but I’d love to sing Godzilla", which he did.
RM: You also mentioned the incorporation of a number of BÖC songs, which is a feature of all three Imaginos albums. Of particular interest are the re-arrangements or reinterpretations; a great example is Workshop Of The Telescopes, renamed Black Telescope, from Re Imaginos.
The sea shanty arrangement fits the sea faring segment of the Imaginos narrative perfectly.
AB: Well, Sandy and I had talked about what would be on the second one, but we never talked about the third one. That was the main difference between the first two and the final one – how can I wrap this up in a grand fashion, because it has to be better than the other two.
The second one was kind of rushed, but the third album took me much longer to do, about a year longer than the others in fact, but there were a lot more songs on it, too.
But that was something I really wanted to do; add more songs. I wanted to incorporate some BÖC songs that weren’t written by Sandy, like Godzilla, Take Me Away, Sole Survivor, and other songs that hadn’t originally been considered for Imaginos, like St. Cecilia and Buddha’s Knee. I felt they all could be part of the story, so the third record really evolved as I was going along.
Also, as you mentioned, a lot more people were involved in the third record, but a few who said they would perform on it, or perform on a particular song, couldn’t, because of schedules.
For example Kasim Sulton was originally going to sing a song but said "sorry Albert, I’m just too busy."
But I said "did you ever hear our version of Godzilla, because we’re doing it just like you did on your solo tour," to which he said "how did I do it on my solo tour?" because he had forgotten [laughter]
This was when we were all in London, when Joe and I were playing as the Bouchard Brothers, so I said "look, we’ll be playing it tonight, why don’t you come over and check it out?" He did and he loved it.
He wrote to me later and said "I can’t sing that other song but I’d love to sing Godzilla", which he did.
RM: You also mentioned the incorporation of a number of BÖC songs, which is a feature of all three Imaginos albums. Of particular interest are the re-arrangements or reinterpretations; a great example is Workshop Of The Telescopes, renamed Black Telescope, from Re Imaginos.
The sea shanty arrangement fits the sea faring segment of the Imaginos narrative perfectly.
RM: You make a welcome return to the UK in September for a run of solo gigs; will Imaginos play a part in those shows?
AB: Well, first of all, and this actually relates to the shows, we are doing comic books based on the three Imaginos volumes.
We’ve done the first one, we have all the text for the second one and we are about to start on the third one. The first one was a very limited run of two hundred and fifty copies but they sold out really quickly.
We have since printed up another two hundred and fifty and they are selling well, too.
Also, given how well Re Imaginos was received, I got this idea of playing most of it on the tour.
But the promoters said "OK, but you can only play ninety minutes, so you can’t possibly do all of Re Imaginos", which is true of course. And I’m doing twelve shows on this tour, with four in a row each time; now I know that if I’m doing even two long shows in a row my voice can get a little croaky, so I know I have to keep it to ninety minutes. But I still want to play a lot of Imaginos songs, or Re Imaginos, so how am I going to do that?
Andy Travers, one of the promoters, said "what about making it a medley?" And I thought "that’s a great idea!" So, I started practising, playing around half of each song, until I got the whole Re Imaginos record done, and played, in about half an hour.
That leaves the rest of the set for BÖC songs and some requests, because I’ve asked fans to submit requests for songs they would like to hear, at certain gigs.
Now that’s great, but the requests range far and wide, so between the BÖC songs, the requested songs, and the Re Imaginos medley, I’m going to have to switch to piano at various points, or change the capo on the guitar, and any number of other little changes.
That’s when I thought "what if I have a little one minute interlude between some songs where I quote text from the comic book?" So the comic book story becomes integrated into the show.
Now, what would be cool is if, eventually, we could also have a video screen featuring some of the frames from the comic books that relate to the songs being performed, or the lyric.
I just talked to Deko a few days ago about all of this and they said "that’s a great idea! Then we could do the audio book!" [laughs].
RM: Why not? The scope and style of Imaginos lends itself to being a multi-media presentation, and an audio narration would work well.
I’m delighted about the graphic novel/ comic book tie-in because I’m also a comic-book historian of sorts, and a genuine comic book geek.
AB: Well, you’ll be pleased to hear that I’m bringing copies of the first volume of the comic book over for this tour and, once we get all three volumes done, which you will be able to purchase separately, we’re going to put all three together in a hardcover book.
Now, the thing that will make these comic books unique is, that on each page that talks about a certain song, or shows the action that happens during that song, there will be a QR code at the bottom of that page; you scan that code and it will take you to that song.
But, we're also looking to have it where you don't just hear the music that relates to that page, you will also hear actors playing the parts. We’re going to have a table reading of actors reading the comic book pages, which we’ll record; then we’ll edit it for each QR code.
RM: Fantastic. This all reinforces my earlier "musical theatre" comment. Sandy would have loved all of this. Count me in, by the way.
AB: Oh, you’re already in! [laughs]. And have you got any requests for songs you’d like to hear?
RM: You know what, I do. I’d love to hear you perform St. Cecilia, which you mentioned earlier.
As many a fan will know, the more psychedelic original goes back to before BÖC and Soft White Underbelly/ the Stalk-Forrest Group, but I love your version on Imaginos III; sweet song.
AB: Thank you. I love that song too. Sandy wrote that one with Andy Winters, who was the bass player in Soft White Underbelly. John Wiesenthal’s sister wrote the original lyrics; John was also a co-founder of Soft White Underbelly.
AB: Well, first of all, and this actually relates to the shows, we are doing comic books based on the three Imaginos volumes.
We’ve done the first one, we have all the text for the second one and we are about to start on the third one. The first one was a very limited run of two hundred and fifty copies but they sold out really quickly.
We have since printed up another two hundred and fifty and they are selling well, too.
Also, given how well Re Imaginos was received, I got this idea of playing most of it on the tour.
But the promoters said "OK, but you can only play ninety minutes, so you can’t possibly do all of Re Imaginos", which is true of course. And I’m doing twelve shows on this tour, with four in a row each time; now I know that if I’m doing even two long shows in a row my voice can get a little croaky, so I know I have to keep it to ninety minutes. But I still want to play a lot of Imaginos songs, or Re Imaginos, so how am I going to do that?
Andy Travers, one of the promoters, said "what about making it a medley?" And I thought "that’s a great idea!" So, I started practising, playing around half of each song, until I got the whole Re Imaginos record done, and played, in about half an hour.
That leaves the rest of the set for BÖC songs and some requests, because I’ve asked fans to submit requests for songs they would like to hear, at certain gigs.
Now that’s great, but the requests range far and wide, so between the BÖC songs, the requested songs, and the Re Imaginos medley, I’m going to have to switch to piano at various points, or change the capo on the guitar, and any number of other little changes.
That’s when I thought "what if I have a little one minute interlude between some songs where I quote text from the comic book?" So the comic book story becomes integrated into the show.
Now, what would be cool is if, eventually, we could also have a video screen featuring some of the frames from the comic books that relate to the songs being performed, or the lyric.
I just talked to Deko a few days ago about all of this and they said "that’s a great idea! Then we could do the audio book!" [laughs].
RM: Why not? The scope and style of Imaginos lends itself to being a multi-media presentation, and an audio narration would work well.
I’m delighted about the graphic novel/ comic book tie-in because I’m also a comic-book historian of sorts, and a genuine comic book geek.
AB: Well, you’ll be pleased to hear that I’m bringing copies of the first volume of the comic book over for this tour and, once we get all three volumes done, which you will be able to purchase separately, we’re going to put all three together in a hardcover book.
Now, the thing that will make these comic books unique is, that on each page that talks about a certain song, or shows the action that happens during that song, there will be a QR code at the bottom of that page; you scan that code and it will take you to that song.
But, we're also looking to have it where you don't just hear the music that relates to that page, you will also hear actors playing the parts. We’re going to have a table reading of actors reading the comic book pages, which we’ll record; then we’ll edit it for each QR code.
RM: Fantastic. This all reinforces my earlier "musical theatre" comment. Sandy would have loved all of this. Count me in, by the way.
AB: Oh, you’re already in! [laughs]. And have you got any requests for songs you’d like to hear?
RM: You know what, I do. I’d love to hear you perform St. Cecilia, which you mentioned earlier.
As many a fan will know, the more psychedelic original goes back to before BÖC and Soft White Underbelly/ the Stalk-Forrest Group, but I love your version on Imaginos III; sweet song.
AB: Thank you. I love that song too. Sandy wrote that one with Andy Winters, who was the bass player in Soft White Underbelly. John Wiesenthal’s sister wrote the original lyrics; John was also a co-founder of Soft White Underbelly.
RM: You mentioned your solo albums earlier; while they didn’t sell as well as they should have, I still have a soft spot for Incantation. I tried to get some traction for it over here in the UK back when it came out in 2014 but, as you and I both know, it’s a crapshoot trying to guess what will garner attention and what will slip under the radar.
AB: Exactly, yeah. With that first solo album I was really trying to do what I’m actually doing right now on my solo tours – I wanted it to be like the first Bob Dylan record, where I’m pretty much just playing the acoustic guitar, maybe a little bit of harmonica, and singing songs.
But, as I was recording that record, I was also thinking "hey, I’m a band guy! If I hear a part for drums I’ve gotta play some drums; if I hear a part for bass guitar, I’d better get a bass player in!"
So a lot of the songs ended up with drums and bass, and a few with keyboards or electric guitar.
At that time David Hirschberg, whom I mentioned earlier, had an accident, where he sustained a head injury, so he couldn’t play; but one of my students from the school I was teaching at played on it, which was great.
RM: That’s another aspect of your career that’s worth mentioning.
You touched on this earlier, and your fan-base will be aware, but not everyone knows you were also a High School music teacher for about thirty years.
Passing on knowledge and teaching the next generation must have been a satisfying experience.
AB: Exactly, yeah. With that first solo album I was really trying to do what I’m actually doing right now on my solo tours – I wanted it to be like the first Bob Dylan record, where I’m pretty much just playing the acoustic guitar, maybe a little bit of harmonica, and singing songs.
But, as I was recording that record, I was also thinking "hey, I’m a band guy! If I hear a part for drums I’ve gotta play some drums; if I hear a part for bass guitar, I’d better get a bass player in!"
So a lot of the songs ended up with drums and bass, and a few with keyboards or electric guitar.
At that time David Hirschberg, whom I mentioned earlier, had an accident, where he sustained a head injury, so he couldn’t play; but one of my students from the school I was teaching at played on it, which was great.
RM: That’s another aspect of your career that’s worth mentioning.
You touched on this earlier, and your fan-base will be aware, but not everyone knows you were also a High School music teacher for about thirty years.
Passing on knowledge and teaching the next generation must have been a satisfying experience.
AB: It was validating for me to do that. As I said before, my dream was to have a hit record.
Then, soon after having that hit record with Don’t Fear The Reaper I started thinking "man, maybe I should have a real job" [laughs] because this is just escapism, helping people to run away from their problems.
But, I didn’t see the value of that "real job" perspective at the time; probably because I was so into escapism myself, and running away from my own problems, stuff like that.
I also felt a little guilty, because my parents had been disappointed in me for dropping out of college.
I got a free ride to college on a full scholarship – actually, more than a full scholarship, because they paid me to go to school – but I left it all behind to become a musician.
But once I had a hit they understood. "Oh, yeah, OK, he was always going to do this!" [laughs]; but I still felt guilty because I left school and never finished; I quit, but I’m not a quitter, you know?
In fact this whole Imaginos thing is further validation that I do not stop; I try not to leave things undone.
So, I went back to school, I got a degree, and picked up a real job teaching students! You’ll know the old adage about those that can, do; those that can’t, teach – usually gym? [laughter]
But of course that’s not true; every job is valuable, especially teaching; but some of the kids would say "but you’re a big rock star, what are you doing teaching at a shitty school?" [laughs]
And I’d reply "because I like to teach; I like the job; I like my audience, which is you guys!"
And then of course the "more cowbell" thing came out and suddenly all the inner city youth knew who I was! [laughter]
RM: Always good to have a reputation.
AB: Exactly, yeah! [laughs]. But even when I was teaching, I was still finding time for my music.
I did those three solo records in my spare time while I was teaching; I would tour in the summertime when I had extended time off. In fact in the beginning I still didn’t have a college degree, so I was like a teacher’s aide; I had more free time but if they wanted me to come in to help that’s what I did.
But that allowed me to go on tour for a couple of weeks at a time, then come back to the school and go to work; I thought "this is the greatest job ever! I’m getting health benefits and a pension but I can still go out and tour!"
I was chatting to one of my musician friends not long ago; he’s madly in love with his wife, got kids he adores, all the rest of it. But when he goes out on tour for a month, or six weeks, or whatever, he comes back and its holy hell! [laughter]. You just want to hug your wife and kids but everybody is mad at you for leaving! [laughs]. But then everything settles down, and is good – and then you leave again!
I found it was the same thing with teaching; when I went out on tour the kids got mad at me for leaving – "Oh, it was so boring when you were gone!" [laughs]
But then I got my teaching degree, which meant I made a lot more money but couldn’t go out and tour just as easily – I couldn’t be absent any more, until I left in 2018.
RM: All of which proves you made a lasting and positive impression.
You also, of course, made a lasting and positive impression in classic era BÖC; what’s great is you have also guested with the band over the last few years on a number of significant gigs, such as the 50th Anniversary shows in New York in 2022.
The classic line-up also feature on the recently released, and final, BÖC studio album Ghost Stories, a collection of previously unreleased rarities. You had some involvement in tidying up some parts?
AB: Yeah. I used my home studio to replace the tom-toms on the song called Gun. All the rest of the drums were original, and sounded OK, but I had to go in and really analyse what I was playing, so I could then play the exact same thing on the toms, and get them to sound the exact same way.
It ended up being a lot of work just to do that one single thing, but you can’t tell those toms weren’t done at the same time as the rest of the track, so it was worth the effort.
RM: Gun is a great BÖC and roll song. Others, like So Supernatural, which Joe sings, and the ballad The Only Thing, sung by Donald, are strong offerings.
But, as I said in review of the album, it’s obvious why some of the songs never made it onto an album.
Then, soon after having that hit record with Don’t Fear The Reaper I started thinking "man, maybe I should have a real job" [laughs] because this is just escapism, helping people to run away from their problems.
But, I didn’t see the value of that "real job" perspective at the time; probably because I was so into escapism myself, and running away from my own problems, stuff like that.
I also felt a little guilty, because my parents had been disappointed in me for dropping out of college.
I got a free ride to college on a full scholarship – actually, more than a full scholarship, because they paid me to go to school – but I left it all behind to become a musician.
But once I had a hit they understood. "Oh, yeah, OK, he was always going to do this!" [laughs]; but I still felt guilty because I left school and never finished; I quit, but I’m not a quitter, you know?
In fact this whole Imaginos thing is further validation that I do not stop; I try not to leave things undone.
So, I went back to school, I got a degree, and picked up a real job teaching students! You’ll know the old adage about those that can, do; those that can’t, teach – usually gym? [laughter]
But of course that’s not true; every job is valuable, especially teaching; but some of the kids would say "but you’re a big rock star, what are you doing teaching at a shitty school?" [laughs]
And I’d reply "because I like to teach; I like the job; I like my audience, which is you guys!"
And then of course the "more cowbell" thing came out and suddenly all the inner city youth knew who I was! [laughter]
RM: Always good to have a reputation.
AB: Exactly, yeah! [laughs]. But even when I was teaching, I was still finding time for my music.
I did those three solo records in my spare time while I was teaching; I would tour in the summertime when I had extended time off. In fact in the beginning I still didn’t have a college degree, so I was like a teacher’s aide; I had more free time but if they wanted me to come in to help that’s what I did.
But that allowed me to go on tour for a couple of weeks at a time, then come back to the school and go to work; I thought "this is the greatest job ever! I’m getting health benefits and a pension but I can still go out and tour!"
I was chatting to one of my musician friends not long ago; he’s madly in love with his wife, got kids he adores, all the rest of it. But when he goes out on tour for a month, or six weeks, or whatever, he comes back and its holy hell! [laughter]. You just want to hug your wife and kids but everybody is mad at you for leaving! [laughs]. But then everything settles down, and is good – and then you leave again!
I found it was the same thing with teaching; when I went out on tour the kids got mad at me for leaving – "Oh, it was so boring when you were gone!" [laughs]
But then I got my teaching degree, which meant I made a lot more money but couldn’t go out and tour just as easily – I couldn’t be absent any more, until I left in 2018.
RM: All of which proves you made a lasting and positive impression.
You also, of course, made a lasting and positive impression in classic era BÖC; what’s great is you have also guested with the band over the last few years on a number of significant gigs, such as the 50th Anniversary shows in New York in 2022.
The classic line-up also feature on the recently released, and final, BÖC studio album Ghost Stories, a collection of previously unreleased rarities. You had some involvement in tidying up some parts?
AB: Yeah. I used my home studio to replace the tom-toms on the song called Gun. All the rest of the drums were original, and sounded OK, but I had to go in and really analyse what I was playing, so I could then play the exact same thing on the toms, and get them to sound the exact same way.
It ended up being a lot of work just to do that one single thing, but you can’t tell those toms weren’t done at the same time as the rest of the track, so it was worth the effort.
RM: Gun is a great BÖC and roll song. Others, like So Supernatural, which Joe sings, and the ballad The Only Thing, sung by Donald, are strong offerings.
But, as I said in review of the album, it’s obvious why some of the songs never made it onto an album.
AB: Well, all of those songs were recorded casually, not in a recording studio but in a practice studio, or a rehearsal space. But they sound pretty good, and a lot of credit for that has to go to our engineer George Geranios; he’s the one that managed to keep all those tapes together.
He has a lot more, but, yeah, they didn’t use some of what I thought was the better stuff because those other tapes were in a deteriorated state and had a lot of drop offs, those sorts of things.
And they didn’t want to have to loop or piece together anything; they wanted it to be a complete take, just like we did back in those days. You would maybe punch in something later, but you would not go through the process of one instrument at a time – well except for our Mirrors record, which we did much like we do now; you would lay down a drum track and then everybody does their stuff, one at a time.
The Only Thing, which you mentioned; that was a song I wrote.
I had started feeling my oats in the studio by that time; the guys would let me take some of their equipment, when we were off the road, back to my house. Eric lent me his Les Paul, Allen lent me his Mesa Boogie amp, stuff like that.
I can’t remember the name of the effect I put on the keyboard when I was demoing that song, but it was actually the same effect Allen used when we rehearsed it. It’s a good song, which as you said Don sang, but I thought my demo was better than the version the band did.
RM: It’s also, probably, more the sort of thing fans might have expected to be on Donald’s solo album than on a BÖC album.
AB: Well, in the beginning, we just tried to do anything that was not like anybody else.
If you look at popular music, going back to the advent of recording and putting songs out on vinyl, and listen to what those songs are about, I’d say well over fifty percent of them are all about love and sex.
But Blue Öyster Cult had none of that, up until Agents of Fortune. That was the point where we thought "you know, it might be nice to see some girls in the audience!" [loud laughter]
So, we tried our hand at singing songs about love and sex, and that worked out pretty well, actually – although The Only Thing was more of a philosophical song; that's maybe why it didn’t get used! [laughs]
RM: Playing musical contrast to a song such as The Only Thing, and as you mentioned right at the top of this chat, you are also involved with The Dictators. I believe a new album is imminent?
AB: Yeah; it’s mixed and mastered, and the artwork is done. The album will be released to streaming services on September 6th; a few weeks later it will be released on CD; vinyl should be available on October 25th.
RM: Great stuff. You’ve been with the band for around five years now?
AB: Ross Friedman and Andy Shernoff called me in 2019 and we got together in January 2020; but we didn’t get together again until May of that year when they lifted the Covid restrictions in New York.
At that point we went into the studio and recorded four songs, two of which are on the new record; the other two we’ll save for something else.
Scott Kempner, the other original member, was supposed to play on the record but he ended up not being able to do it because of his illness, which progressed too quickly; sadly he died in November of last year.
But Scott did get to hear the record; in fact he was hoping to be able to learn some of the songs so he could play on it – we had hoped we could get him to maybe do some overdubs, but it just didn’t work out, sadly.
The last time I spoke to him was just before he got really bad; we still thought at that point he would be able to commit. He said "I’m really excited about playing with you Albert; we always wanted you to be in the group." That was was such a nice thing to say.
But, right at the beginning, when we first got together, I said "OK, but we have to write some songs, because we don’t want to be just a cover band, playing all the old songs; I don’t want to do that."
I could play all those songs, but I can’t guarantee I’d be able to do them any better than guys like J.P. Patterson, Ritchie Keeter and Frank Funaro, all great drummers that came before me.
What I bring to the table is not really the drumming though. I’m a pretty good drummer – I can play just about anything I can imagine – but what I really bring are arrangement ideas, concepts, a bigger picture.
Andy was, and is, the main songwriter, so when we got together I had no idea what to do. I didn’t really figure that out until earlier this year, when we were trying to wrap up the record. That’s when I thought "I know what we need, and what I can do here!"
RM: There’s a nice dovetailing here in that The Dictators are fellow New Yorkers who also made their initial impact in the mid-seventies, and had their first three albums co-produced by Sandy.
And here you are now, some five decades on, playing with your other band of brothers, Ross and Andy, and finally realising both Sandy’s grand concept and your dream of a masterpiece in the musical shape and lyrical form of the Imaginos trilogy. It’s not been a bad rock and roll ride, Albert.
AB: [laughs] No is hasn’t; and we’re not done yet – there’s plenty more to come!
RM: Thanks for spending time with FabricationsHQ Albert; see you out on the Imaginos road in September.
AB: Thank you Ross; see you and the UK fans soon!
Ross Muir
Muirsical Conversation With Albert Bouchard
August 2024
Photo credits: all images RJ Carroll
Click here for Imaginos albums and other Albert Bouchard merch
Click here to order/ purchase new Dictators album and related merch
He has a lot more, but, yeah, they didn’t use some of what I thought was the better stuff because those other tapes were in a deteriorated state and had a lot of drop offs, those sorts of things.
And they didn’t want to have to loop or piece together anything; they wanted it to be a complete take, just like we did back in those days. You would maybe punch in something later, but you would not go through the process of one instrument at a time – well except for our Mirrors record, which we did much like we do now; you would lay down a drum track and then everybody does their stuff, one at a time.
The Only Thing, which you mentioned; that was a song I wrote.
I had started feeling my oats in the studio by that time; the guys would let me take some of their equipment, when we were off the road, back to my house. Eric lent me his Les Paul, Allen lent me his Mesa Boogie amp, stuff like that.
I can’t remember the name of the effect I put on the keyboard when I was demoing that song, but it was actually the same effect Allen used when we rehearsed it. It’s a good song, which as you said Don sang, but I thought my demo was better than the version the band did.
RM: It’s also, probably, more the sort of thing fans might have expected to be on Donald’s solo album than on a BÖC album.
AB: Well, in the beginning, we just tried to do anything that was not like anybody else.
If you look at popular music, going back to the advent of recording and putting songs out on vinyl, and listen to what those songs are about, I’d say well over fifty percent of them are all about love and sex.
But Blue Öyster Cult had none of that, up until Agents of Fortune. That was the point where we thought "you know, it might be nice to see some girls in the audience!" [loud laughter]
So, we tried our hand at singing songs about love and sex, and that worked out pretty well, actually – although The Only Thing was more of a philosophical song; that's maybe why it didn’t get used! [laughs]
RM: Playing musical contrast to a song such as The Only Thing, and as you mentioned right at the top of this chat, you are also involved with The Dictators. I believe a new album is imminent?
AB: Yeah; it’s mixed and mastered, and the artwork is done. The album will be released to streaming services on September 6th; a few weeks later it will be released on CD; vinyl should be available on October 25th.
RM: Great stuff. You’ve been with the band for around five years now?
AB: Ross Friedman and Andy Shernoff called me in 2019 and we got together in January 2020; but we didn’t get together again until May of that year when they lifted the Covid restrictions in New York.
At that point we went into the studio and recorded four songs, two of which are on the new record; the other two we’ll save for something else.
Scott Kempner, the other original member, was supposed to play on the record but he ended up not being able to do it because of his illness, which progressed too quickly; sadly he died in November of last year.
But Scott did get to hear the record; in fact he was hoping to be able to learn some of the songs so he could play on it – we had hoped we could get him to maybe do some overdubs, but it just didn’t work out, sadly.
The last time I spoke to him was just before he got really bad; we still thought at that point he would be able to commit. He said "I’m really excited about playing with you Albert; we always wanted you to be in the group." That was was such a nice thing to say.
But, right at the beginning, when we first got together, I said "OK, but we have to write some songs, because we don’t want to be just a cover band, playing all the old songs; I don’t want to do that."
I could play all those songs, but I can’t guarantee I’d be able to do them any better than guys like J.P. Patterson, Ritchie Keeter and Frank Funaro, all great drummers that came before me.
What I bring to the table is not really the drumming though. I’m a pretty good drummer – I can play just about anything I can imagine – but what I really bring are arrangement ideas, concepts, a bigger picture.
Andy was, and is, the main songwriter, so when we got together I had no idea what to do. I didn’t really figure that out until earlier this year, when we were trying to wrap up the record. That’s when I thought "I know what we need, and what I can do here!"
RM: There’s a nice dovetailing here in that The Dictators are fellow New Yorkers who also made their initial impact in the mid-seventies, and had their first three albums co-produced by Sandy.
And here you are now, some five decades on, playing with your other band of brothers, Ross and Andy, and finally realising both Sandy’s grand concept and your dream of a masterpiece in the musical shape and lyrical form of the Imaginos trilogy. It’s not been a bad rock and roll ride, Albert.
AB: [laughs] No is hasn’t; and we’re not done yet – there’s plenty more to come!
RM: Thanks for spending time with FabricationsHQ Albert; see you out on the Imaginos road in September.
AB: Thank you Ross; see you and the UK fans soon!
Ross Muir
Muirsical Conversation With Albert Bouchard
August 2024
Photo credits: all images RJ Carroll
Click here for Imaginos albums and other Albert Bouchard merch
Click here to order/ purchase new Dictators album and related merch