Welcome To The New Church
Muirsical Conversation with Lee Mark Jones (Gypsy Lee Pistolero)
Muirsical Conversation with Lee Mark Jones (Gypsy Lee Pistolero)
In May, flamenco-punk glam rock 'n' roll band the Gypsy Pistoleros, fronted by singer and travelling theatre actor Lee Mark Jones (aka Gypsy Lee Pistolero) released their best-to-date album Church of the Pistoleros.
Sadly, in couldn’t-make-it-up circumstances, a guaranteed official UK chart sighting failed to materialise, and the chance for bigger and noticeable success was lost.
That led to the decision by Lee Mark Jones to withdraw the album from Earache Records and go it alone under their own steam, and their own label.
The results of that decision have led to a re-release of the album, as well as new CD & Vinyl issue for 2023’s Duende a Go Go Loco and 2021’s The Mescalito Vampires, the latter heralding the return of the band after a ten year hiatus.
To dovetail with the re-release of Church Of The Pistoleros, the ever-engaging and honest speaking Lee Mark Jones sat in with FabricationsHQ to talk about the album, including the facts behind its chart failure and its new lease of re-released life.
Mark also talked about the new worldwide distribution deal, the follow-on concept behind the band’s next album, and plans for touring next year.
But the conversation started with the band’s tour with The Outlaw Orchestra earlier this year, and their well-received appearance at the Rebellion Festival.
Ross Muir: Prior to the Church of the Pistoleros original release in May, you undertook a UK tour with special guests The Outlaw Orchestra. That was an interesting dovetailing, but one I was delighted to see and report on, because I’m all for individualistic bands, who don’t fall into a specific genre, getting out there and making a go of it – which is not easy in the current climate. How did the tour go?
Lee Mark Jones: It was great! There was a clash, or mix, of crowds at some of the shows but that’s great too, because I’d much rather go and out and see two very different bands who have their own sound – and in some cases one band will convert some of the crowd who are there to see the other band.
I’d much rather have that than just going to a gig to watch or listen to bands that all sound much the same.
I’m not going to bitch about this too much [laughs], but I know the Outlaw boys get this a bit as well – it can be difficult at time because we don’t fit into this New Wave Of British Classic Rock thing.
I don’t even know what that means, frankly – does it mean everybody wants to be, or sound like, Thin Lizzy, or whoever?
So, because we don’t fit into that box we don’t get looked at for festivals like Maid Of Stone or Call of The Wild, and others that are more classic rock orientated.
Basically they don’t know what to do with us, because they can’t pigeonhole you; but I always thought that was great, because there was a time when that was what every band wanted – you wanted your own sound, doing what you do, and not being likened to anyone else.
We just found it was all a pain in the arse, to be honest with you [laughs]; so we thought "bollocks to it all, let’s just do what we do!" And we love what The Outlaw Orchestra do too; they’re a great band and a great bunch of lads. So, yeah, it was great tour, one where the audiences could make of each band what they would, while, hopefully, still enjoying both of us.
And you’re more likely to remember it for those very reasons, rather than a gig where you go to see a band and end up thinking "yeah, they sound much the same as that other band I saw recently."
RM: And therein lies one of the issues of a grass roots, club level circuit that’s struggling and, frankly, now on diminishing audience returns. Most gig goers would rather see and hear something familiar – hence why tribute bands have never been more popular – than something a little more left field.
And many of those bands purposely, and in some cases grudgingly, work within a more derivative sound because they know that will get them up a rung of the ladder and onto those festivals.
LMJ: And that’s exactly why we went for the Rebellion Festival; we are quite punky in places, so we knew we should go down well and, I’m glad to say, we did!
That was an incredible experience, because around ninety-five percent of the people who saw our set had never seen us before – there were loads of old-school punks with Mohicans, new wave/ new school punks, people of all ages from all over Europe, and even some Mexican punks!
I was thinking "all right, we say that we’re a band that spans across the genres, so let’s see if we do." And we went down great; it was wonderful!
The other great thing about Rebellion, other than name headliners like The Damned, was every band there – at least the ones we managed to see – were new. At other festivals you keep seeing the same bands each year.
RM: Which goes back to the more commonplace, or safer, give-them-what-they-want-to-hear or name bands they know option. Great to hear Rebellion went so well for you; that's all the more impressive when you consider you had an early afternoon slot.
LMJ: Yeah, we opened one of the festival days at The Opera House. We honestly thought they might put us on the Rising Stars or Introducing Stage but, no, they put us on in one of the bigger venues!
But, because we were on first, at one o’clock, I said to the band "look, this could go one of two ways," and that was because The Damned had played the night before and didn’t finish until half past midnight, or nearer one o’clock in the morning.
So, those that were hammered after a whole day of Rebellion, then The Damned at night, were probably still in bed or having a late breakfast – but we got about five hundred in!
And that was great, because you just never know – one night we went down to the Kasbah, at about ten o’clock, and there was some poor band playing who were going against another band playing somewhere else at the same time; they only had a couple of dozen people in a venue that has a four thousand capacity!
So, yeah we did great, and fingers crossed we’ll be invited back again next year.
Sadly, in couldn’t-make-it-up circumstances, a guaranteed official UK chart sighting failed to materialise, and the chance for bigger and noticeable success was lost.
That led to the decision by Lee Mark Jones to withdraw the album from Earache Records and go it alone under their own steam, and their own label.
The results of that decision have led to a re-release of the album, as well as new CD & Vinyl issue for 2023’s Duende a Go Go Loco and 2021’s The Mescalito Vampires, the latter heralding the return of the band after a ten year hiatus.
To dovetail with the re-release of Church Of The Pistoleros, the ever-engaging and honest speaking Lee Mark Jones sat in with FabricationsHQ to talk about the album, including the facts behind its chart failure and its new lease of re-released life.
Mark also talked about the new worldwide distribution deal, the follow-on concept behind the band’s next album, and plans for touring next year.
But the conversation started with the band’s tour with The Outlaw Orchestra earlier this year, and their well-received appearance at the Rebellion Festival.
Ross Muir: Prior to the Church of the Pistoleros original release in May, you undertook a UK tour with special guests The Outlaw Orchestra. That was an interesting dovetailing, but one I was delighted to see and report on, because I’m all for individualistic bands, who don’t fall into a specific genre, getting out there and making a go of it – which is not easy in the current climate. How did the tour go?
Lee Mark Jones: It was great! There was a clash, or mix, of crowds at some of the shows but that’s great too, because I’d much rather go and out and see two very different bands who have their own sound – and in some cases one band will convert some of the crowd who are there to see the other band.
I’d much rather have that than just going to a gig to watch or listen to bands that all sound much the same.
I’m not going to bitch about this too much [laughs], but I know the Outlaw boys get this a bit as well – it can be difficult at time because we don’t fit into this New Wave Of British Classic Rock thing.
I don’t even know what that means, frankly – does it mean everybody wants to be, or sound like, Thin Lizzy, or whoever?
So, because we don’t fit into that box we don’t get looked at for festivals like Maid Of Stone or Call of The Wild, and others that are more classic rock orientated.
Basically they don’t know what to do with us, because they can’t pigeonhole you; but I always thought that was great, because there was a time when that was what every band wanted – you wanted your own sound, doing what you do, and not being likened to anyone else.
We just found it was all a pain in the arse, to be honest with you [laughs]; so we thought "bollocks to it all, let’s just do what we do!" And we love what The Outlaw Orchestra do too; they’re a great band and a great bunch of lads. So, yeah, it was great tour, one where the audiences could make of each band what they would, while, hopefully, still enjoying both of us.
And you’re more likely to remember it for those very reasons, rather than a gig where you go to see a band and end up thinking "yeah, they sound much the same as that other band I saw recently."
RM: And therein lies one of the issues of a grass roots, club level circuit that’s struggling and, frankly, now on diminishing audience returns. Most gig goers would rather see and hear something familiar – hence why tribute bands have never been more popular – than something a little more left field.
And many of those bands purposely, and in some cases grudgingly, work within a more derivative sound because they know that will get them up a rung of the ladder and onto those festivals.
LMJ: And that’s exactly why we went for the Rebellion Festival; we are quite punky in places, so we knew we should go down well and, I’m glad to say, we did!
That was an incredible experience, because around ninety-five percent of the people who saw our set had never seen us before – there were loads of old-school punks with Mohicans, new wave/ new school punks, people of all ages from all over Europe, and even some Mexican punks!
I was thinking "all right, we say that we’re a band that spans across the genres, so let’s see if we do." And we went down great; it was wonderful!
The other great thing about Rebellion, other than name headliners like The Damned, was every band there – at least the ones we managed to see – were new. At other festivals you keep seeing the same bands each year.
RM: Which goes back to the more commonplace, or safer, give-them-what-they-want-to-hear or name bands they know option. Great to hear Rebellion went so well for you; that's all the more impressive when you consider you had an early afternoon slot.
LMJ: Yeah, we opened one of the festival days at The Opera House. We honestly thought they might put us on the Rising Stars or Introducing Stage but, no, they put us on in one of the bigger venues!
But, because we were on first, at one o’clock, I said to the band "look, this could go one of two ways," and that was because The Damned had played the night before and didn’t finish until half past midnight, or nearer one o’clock in the morning.
So, those that were hammered after a whole day of Rebellion, then The Damned at night, were probably still in bed or having a late breakfast – but we got about five hundred in!
And that was great, because you just never know – one night we went down to the Kasbah, at about ten o’clock, and there was some poor band playing who were going against another band playing somewhere else at the same time; they only had a couple of dozen people in a venue that has a four thousand capacity!
So, yeah we did great, and fingers crossed we’ll be invited back again next year.
RM: As many a fan has commented, posted on, or said to me when I saw you with The Outlaw Orchestra earlier this year with new recruit Pip Sampson on drums, this is a great sounding band.
LMJ: It is sounding great, yeah. Pip is a great drummer who, as many will know, used to be with South Of Salem. Pip came in and did fantastically well for us. He deserves to be out there, doing his stuff, and I’m so glad he’s back doing just that!
RM: From live performance to studio output. Since you reformed the band, there has been a slow but assured build of the Gypsy Pistoleros brand, if you will – The Mescalito Vampires album was a solid statement of flamenco-punk intent, but following album Duende a Go Go Loco was broader-scoped, and far stronger.
And, now, Church Of The Pistoleros, which is your best album to date, bolstered by guidance, songwriting input and a great sound from producer Dave Draper.
LMJ: Thank you, Ross and I agree, I think this is our best album so far.
Dave was working a lot with Ginger and the Wildhearts, but it got to the stage where, I think, he couldn’t keep up, or work to Ginger’s hours, so he stepped away.
That gave us a hell of a lot more time with Dave; we’d go in and demo the songs with him, then write them up further with him – Dave is the kind of dude that takes apart what you are doing and then rewrites parts without you even noticing [laughs]. But we know that’s what he’s doing and we are absolutely fine with that, because he’s taken it to another level.
And, in fact, the next album we’ve been doing with Dave, Dark Faerie Tales, is already done! It will be mixed and mastered at the end of September, and released next April.
RM: Good to hear. You’ll be touring the album too, come the time, presumably?
LMJ: We’re booking the tour now, actually. It will be a headline tour again because we’ve always gone out on our own; we’ve never supported anybody. That said we are looking at the possibility of some big support slots, but we won’t buy-on, because we can’t afford to do that.
But, yeah, we’ve got some great gigs for the Dark Faerie Tales tour lined up – it looks like our London headline show will be at The Underworld, and we’re going to be playing The Cluny in Newcastle.
We’re also coming back to Bannermans in Edinburgh, because we love playing there and Christian Kimmett, who brings the bands’ to Bannermans, backed us when we were nothing, bless him.
We’ll also be coming back to the DreadnoughtRock in Bathgate, but not in the same tour schedule as Bannermans because, as you know, they are too close together.
We’re looking to do an April-May run, then a September-October run.
We’ve also done Planet Rockstock, Winters End in the past and we’ll be doing Planet Rockstock again this November; but that’s the only biggish rock festival we do, because we’d also like to run off back to Rebellion, and other things like headlining the Beltane Gathering in Wales.
That’s a pagan, Gothic-y type festival that takes place on the first and second of May, and it’s going to be brill! We’re doing an acoustic set on the Friday night and a full electric set on Saturday night.
RM: Excellent. Can you give me any details on Dark Faerie Tales or, given we are still pushing Church Of The Pistoleros and promoting its re-release, is it too early to spill the beans?
LMJ: What I can say is that Dark Faerie Tales takes Church on another step, and into the post-apocalyptic, if you want to go with a concept, where the survivors run to the forests!
The whole look will be Pan’s Labyrinth meets A Midsummer Night’s Dream, with the Church remnants.
It’s a chance to do something a bit more interesting, and while we would love to have big money behind us for it, we’ll manage to put something together on a bag of crisps budget! [laughs]
RM: But before that, there’s the re-release for Church Of The Pistoleros, on your own label.
For those that may not know, the impact made by, and reception given to, the singles, along with the pre-release promotion, pre-sale numbers and Earache Records behind you, should have led to an album that made the mainstream UK charts… but failed to do so.
Are you in a position to expand on just what happened there?
LMJ: I am now, but couldn’t at the time for various reasons. What actually went down was, first, Those Damn Crows, who are with Earache, had their number one album on just about every single chart, which is pretty much unheard of.
Now, because of that, Earache had what they called an Audit; they were audited by The Official Charts Company and frozen for three weeks, where they could not make any further release submissions.
And what fell a couple of weeks after Those Damn Crows had their number one? Our album.
But Earache couldn’t submit our figures, or sales. When it was all over, they said they should be able to retrospectively submit, but we knew that they wouldn’t be able to do that; there’s was no chance of the Official Charts Company accepting that.
We know we outsold our last album, which scraped into Top 100 of the UK charts; this one would have been nearer Top 50. For an Indie band that doesn’t have massive financial backing, that would have been great.
It was just so strange, because we were setting up our chart release party and associated celebrations, which we were all up for. Then the reality destroyed us for a bit, to be honest.
You automatically think that a record label knows how to do things but they don’t; they’re just people, who have a lot of money behind some artists, and not on others.
But, when you get these sorts of situations what do you do, cry about it? No, sod that.
I just thought "right, we’re not going to do that again, or listen to others; we’re going to do it ourselves."
So, we took everything back from Earache and withdrew the album. We lost a lot of sales by doing that but I said, "no, we’re going."
I did say to Digby (Pearson) of Earache before we left that if he signed us properly, we’d stay, but he replied to say they had just signed Yachtley Crew and wished us good luck!
RM: The sailor outfitted, seventies and eighties yacht rock covers band? If ever you needed a sign that it was time to go your own way...
LMJ: I know! I was thinking Dig, have you completely lost the plot, mate? [laughs]
The other thing was (Head of Label) Tim Bailey, who we had been dealing with, had jumped ship from Earache to Frontiers, and I didn’t want to join Frontiers, so we lost the contact who had been championing us.
That’s when I said to the band "let’s just do it ourselves," to which they replied "really, Lee? And how are we going to do that?" [laughs]
Anyway, I got in touch with an old mate of mine called Steve Beatty. Back in the mid-eighties I was in a band called the Ice Babies and we supported Lords Of The New Church; we later released an EP which had distribution through Steve’s Plastic Head Music Distribution, which had not long started.
I hadn’t spoken to Steve in what was nearly forty years, but I got back in touch and told him the situation.
He said "Lee, I don’t know if you’ve noticed but we are now massive distributors" – including for Earache, funnily enough – "we don’t work with single artists, we’re too big."
But I kept on going back to him and eventually he said "frikkin’ hell Lee, OK, I’ll do it!" [laughs]
So, we all went down to have a meeting with him; we drew up in the Tiger Van and he pulled up in a Bentley!
I shook his hand and said "well, one of us has done really well out of life, Steve!" [laughter].
But he’s been great, bless him. He’s taken it all on, including Vinyl and CD distribution for the Vampires and Loco albums, and Church Of The Pistoleros is now available in Bolivia, and Mexico, and wherever you want to order it. It will also be available in store, digitally and Direct To Consumer.
It’s just mass coverage, which is brilliant.
RM: And you’ve also got new coloured vinyl versions?
LMJ: Yes! We have a brand new one, limited to the first one hundred ordered, which is white with the black and red splatter; that has never been released before.
Past that it becomes lucky dip, where you get one of the six different coloured vinyl’s we’re doing.
And, the warehouse have told us that if anyone wants to buy all six as a lucky dip pack, as it were, it will be the six different vinyl colours, you won’t get any the same.
So, yeah, we’re really looking forward to getting the album back out there on our own label, The New Church Records. But I know the impetus has gone, so this is more like a reboot than a re-release.
But, it’s a reboot under our terms, under our own label. Nobody can mess it up – apart form us! [laughs]
RM: But that, in many cases, is both the epitome of, and best way forward for, an independent artist – you’re in control; your destiny, or fate, is in your own hands.
LMJ: Yes, exactly, because you are just crushed when it’s someone else’s fuck up, and you have no control over it – it’s like "you have to be joking," you know?
RM: But, from the negative comes the positive of the album’s new lease of life, because it deserves to be heard well beyond the congregation of the Pistolero Church.
And it starts as it means to continue, from the darker, and globally fitting, rewording of The Lord’s Prayer, which leads directly to the impacting, clarion call title track.
LMJ: It is sounding great, yeah. Pip is a great drummer who, as many will know, used to be with South Of Salem. Pip came in and did fantastically well for us. He deserves to be out there, doing his stuff, and I’m so glad he’s back doing just that!
RM: From live performance to studio output. Since you reformed the band, there has been a slow but assured build of the Gypsy Pistoleros brand, if you will – The Mescalito Vampires album was a solid statement of flamenco-punk intent, but following album Duende a Go Go Loco was broader-scoped, and far stronger.
And, now, Church Of The Pistoleros, which is your best album to date, bolstered by guidance, songwriting input and a great sound from producer Dave Draper.
LMJ: Thank you, Ross and I agree, I think this is our best album so far.
Dave was working a lot with Ginger and the Wildhearts, but it got to the stage where, I think, he couldn’t keep up, or work to Ginger’s hours, so he stepped away.
That gave us a hell of a lot more time with Dave; we’d go in and demo the songs with him, then write them up further with him – Dave is the kind of dude that takes apart what you are doing and then rewrites parts without you even noticing [laughs]. But we know that’s what he’s doing and we are absolutely fine with that, because he’s taken it to another level.
And, in fact, the next album we’ve been doing with Dave, Dark Faerie Tales, is already done! It will be mixed and mastered at the end of September, and released next April.
RM: Good to hear. You’ll be touring the album too, come the time, presumably?
LMJ: We’re booking the tour now, actually. It will be a headline tour again because we’ve always gone out on our own; we’ve never supported anybody. That said we are looking at the possibility of some big support slots, but we won’t buy-on, because we can’t afford to do that.
But, yeah, we’ve got some great gigs for the Dark Faerie Tales tour lined up – it looks like our London headline show will be at The Underworld, and we’re going to be playing The Cluny in Newcastle.
We’re also coming back to Bannermans in Edinburgh, because we love playing there and Christian Kimmett, who brings the bands’ to Bannermans, backed us when we were nothing, bless him.
We’ll also be coming back to the DreadnoughtRock in Bathgate, but not in the same tour schedule as Bannermans because, as you know, they are too close together.
We’re looking to do an April-May run, then a September-October run.
We’ve also done Planet Rockstock, Winters End in the past and we’ll be doing Planet Rockstock again this November; but that’s the only biggish rock festival we do, because we’d also like to run off back to Rebellion, and other things like headlining the Beltane Gathering in Wales.
That’s a pagan, Gothic-y type festival that takes place on the first and second of May, and it’s going to be brill! We’re doing an acoustic set on the Friday night and a full electric set on Saturday night.
RM: Excellent. Can you give me any details on Dark Faerie Tales or, given we are still pushing Church Of The Pistoleros and promoting its re-release, is it too early to spill the beans?
LMJ: What I can say is that Dark Faerie Tales takes Church on another step, and into the post-apocalyptic, if you want to go with a concept, where the survivors run to the forests!
The whole look will be Pan’s Labyrinth meets A Midsummer Night’s Dream, with the Church remnants.
It’s a chance to do something a bit more interesting, and while we would love to have big money behind us for it, we’ll manage to put something together on a bag of crisps budget! [laughs]
RM: But before that, there’s the re-release for Church Of The Pistoleros, on your own label.
For those that may not know, the impact made by, and reception given to, the singles, along with the pre-release promotion, pre-sale numbers and Earache Records behind you, should have led to an album that made the mainstream UK charts… but failed to do so.
Are you in a position to expand on just what happened there?
LMJ: I am now, but couldn’t at the time for various reasons. What actually went down was, first, Those Damn Crows, who are with Earache, had their number one album on just about every single chart, which is pretty much unheard of.
Now, because of that, Earache had what they called an Audit; they were audited by The Official Charts Company and frozen for three weeks, where they could not make any further release submissions.
And what fell a couple of weeks after Those Damn Crows had their number one? Our album.
But Earache couldn’t submit our figures, or sales. When it was all over, they said they should be able to retrospectively submit, but we knew that they wouldn’t be able to do that; there’s was no chance of the Official Charts Company accepting that.
We know we outsold our last album, which scraped into Top 100 of the UK charts; this one would have been nearer Top 50. For an Indie band that doesn’t have massive financial backing, that would have been great.
It was just so strange, because we were setting up our chart release party and associated celebrations, which we were all up for. Then the reality destroyed us for a bit, to be honest.
You automatically think that a record label knows how to do things but they don’t; they’re just people, who have a lot of money behind some artists, and not on others.
But, when you get these sorts of situations what do you do, cry about it? No, sod that.
I just thought "right, we’re not going to do that again, or listen to others; we’re going to do it ourselves."
So, we took everything back from Earache and withdrew the album. We lost a lot of sales by doing that but I said, "no, we’re going."
I did say to Digby (Pearson) of Earache before we left that if he signed us properly, we’d stay, but he replied to say they had just signed Yachtley Crew and wished us good luck!
RM: The sailor outfitted, seventies and eighties yacht rock covers band? If ever you needed a sign that it was time to go your own way...
LMJ: I know! I was thinking Dig, have you completely lost the plot, mate? [laughs]
The other thing was (Head of Label) Tim Bailey, who we had been dealing with, had jumped ship from Earache to Frontiers, and I didn’t want to join Frontiers, so we lost the contact who had been championing us.
That’s when I said to the band "let’s just do it ourselves," to which they replied "really, Lee? And how are we going to do that?" [laughs]
Anyway, I got in touch with an old mate of mine called Steve Beatty. Back in the mid-eighties I was in a band called the Ice Babies and we supported Lords Of The New Church; we later released an EP which had distribution through Steve’s Plastic Head Music Distribution, which had not long started.
I hadn’t spoken to Steve in what was nearly forty years, but I got back in touch and told him the situation.
He said "Lee, I don’t know if you’ve noticed but we are now massive distributors" – including for Earache, funnily enough – "we don’t work with single artists, we’re too big."
But I kept on going back to him and eventually he said "frikkin’ hell Lee, OK, I’ll do it!" [laughs]
So, we all went down to have a meeting with him; we drew up in the Tiger Van and he pulled up in a Bentley!
I shook his hand and said "well, one of us has done really well out of life, Steve!" [laughter].
But he’s been great, bless him. He’s taken it all on, including Vinyl and CD distribution for the Vampires and Loco albums, and Church Of The Pistoleros is now available in Bolivia, and Mexico, and wherever you want to order it. It will also be available in store, digitally and Direct To Consumer.
It’s just mass coverage, which is brilliant.
RM: And you’ve also got new coloured vinyl versions?
LMJ: Yes! We have a brand new one, limited to the first one hundred ordered, which is white with the black and red splatter; that has never been released before.
Past that it becomes lucky dip, where you get one of the six different coloured vinyl’s we’re doing.
And, the warehouse have told us that if anyone wants to buy all six as a lucky dip pack, as it were, it will be the six different vinyl colours, you won’t get any the same.
So, yeah, we’re really looking forward to getting the album back out there on our own label, The New Church Records. But I know the impetus has gone, so this is more like a reboot than a re-release.
But, it’s a reboot under our terms, under our own label. Nobody can mess it up – apart form us! [laughs]
RM: But that, in many cases, is both the epitome of, and best way forward for, an independent artist – you’re in control; your destiny, or fate, is in your own hands.
LMJ: Yes, exactly, because you are just crushed when it’s someone else’s fuck up, and you have no control over it – it’s like "you have to be joking," you know?
RM: But, from the negative comes the positive of the album’s new lease of life, because it deserves to be heard well beyond the congregation of the Pistolero Church.
And it starts as it means to continue, from the darker, and globally fitting, rewording of The Lord’s Prayer, which leads directly to the impacting, clarion call title track.
LMJ: The whole concept for the Church album was that clarion call you mentioned – a call to the outsiders, or the misunderstood.
I’m not a massive fan of The Smiths, but I do remember an interview Morrisey did where he said if there was a party going on, all the popular kids, who were all pretty similar, would be in one room talking to each other, but he and the other guys would be in corner of another room where everybody ignored them.
But, after a bit, people would start coming over to them and ask who they were or what they did. Suddenly, they had that interest just by being totally out there and doing their own thing; they didn’t try to follow everybody else or be the same as the others.
And I thought, "well, OK, we’re like outsiders too, from our music and the way we look on stage to the festivals we do," and all the rest of it. So I just felt we should become our own little cult, our own little Church, our own little everything! And that became our call to the beautiful weirdos, the outcasts, the renegades, and all the others who felt they didn't fit. We just went with it and it worked beautifully for us.
So, that’s where we were going with the Church Of The Pistoleros concept, and are now carrying it on with the post-apocalyptic Dark Faerie Tales. But it’s also about having fun, because I want to be entertained by a show, and not just a gig where bands are all doing much the same thing.
RM: Yes, best of both worlds. You put on a great, fun show, but you also have great songs, such as the punk-infused Shadow Walker, the bubble gum pop-rock of I’m In Love With Myself and the Pistoleros rock of Dance Naked in The Rain.
They are all great live songs, but I have to admit my favourite Church songs are Whatever Happened to the Old Town and Last of The Comancheros, both of which are built on great arrangements.
The former has a descending chord structure in the early going, while the latter could be described as Tex-Mex meets spaghetti western. Both bring further musical shifts and textures to the Gypsy Pistoleros sound.
LMJ: Thank you. It’s funny, because I think it actually took a while for the penny to drop with a few reviewers and press who thought we were flamenco-punk and glam, but then realised we also do pop, and rock, and goth, or whatever. And that’s what we set out to do with this album and Dave Draper – to have no rules.
I remember being about half-way through writing or formulating I’m In Love With Myself, and saying to Dave "you know what this song needs on this particular verse?" And he replied "yeah, you don’t need to tell me – a bit of keyboards!" And I said "no, dude, punk guitar!" [laughter]
Dave has this strange, almost orchestral brain, where he can hear one little thing slotting into another little thing, and the key changes are all beautifully done, with little counter melodies going on.
He also has a habit of saying, while I’m in the vocal booth, "here’s a brand new part for this song – sing something!" [laughs] I’ll go "OK," then have to come straight out with some lyrics!
That’s why, with Whatever Happened to the Old Town, where it goes into the [sings] "Home, where the memories haunt me" section, that’s part Simon and Garfunkel and part Beatles, because that’s just where my brain went at that precise point!
I love weird things like that, which are totally spontaneous; it’s not worked on over and over until you know it backwards and get a bit bored of it. That’s how it came about, that’s how it is, so we didn’t change it.
I’m not a massive fan of The Smiths, but I do remember an interview Morrisey did where he said if there was a party going on, all the popular kids, who were all pretty similar, would be in one room talking to each other, but he and the other guys would be in corner of another room where everybody ignored them.
But, after a bit, people would start coming over to them and ask who they were or what they did. Suddenly, they had that interest just by being totally out there and doing their own thing; they didn’t try to follow everybody else or be the same as the others.
And I thought, "well, OK, we’re like outsiders too, from our music and the way we look on stage to the festivals we do," and all the rest of it. So I just felt we should become our own little cult, our own little Church, our own little everything! And that became our call to the beautiful weirdos, the outcasts, the renegades, and all the others who felt they didn't fit. We just went with it and it worked beautifully for us.
So, that’s where we were going with the Church Of The Pistoleros concept, and are now carrying it on with the post-apocalyptic Dark Faerie Tales. But it’s also about having fun, because I want to be entertained by a show, and not just a gig where bands are all doing much the same thing.
RM: Yes, best of both worlds. You put on a great, fun show, but you also have great songs, such as the punk-infused Shadow Walker, the bubble gum pop-rock of I’m In Love With Myself and the Pistoleros rock of Dance Naked in The Rain.
They are all great live songs, but I have to admit my favourite Church songs are Whatever Happened to the Old Town and Last of The Comancheros, both of which are built on great arrangements.
The former has a descending chord structure in the early going, while the latter could be described as Tex-Mex meets spaghetti western. Both bring further musical shifts and textures to the Gypsy Pistoleros sound.
LMJ: Thank you. It’s funny, because I think it actually took a while for the penny to drop with a few reviewers and press who thought we were flamenco-punk and glam, but then realised we also do pop, and rock, and goth, or whatever. And that’s what we set out to do with this album and Dave Draper – to have no rules.
I remember being about half-way through writing or formulating I’m In Love With Myself, and saying to Dave "you know what this song needs on this particular verse?" And he replied "yeah, you don’t need to tell me – a bit of keyboards!" And I said "no, dude, punk guitar!" [laughter]
Dave has this strange, almost orchestral brain, where he can hear one little thing slotting into another little thing, and the key changes are all beautifully done, with little counter melodies going on.
He also has a habit of saying, while I’m in the vocal booth, "here’s a brand new part for this song – sing something!" [laughs] I’ll go "OK," then have to come straight out with some lyrics!
That’s why, with Whatever Happened to the Old Town, where it goes into the [sings] "Home, where the memories haunt me" section, that’s part Simon and Garfunkel and part Beatles, because that’s just where my brain went at that precise point!
I love weird things like that, which are totally spontaneous; it’s not worked on over and over until you know it backwards and get a bit bored of it. That’s how it came about, that’s how it is, so we didn’t change it.
RM: I take it the same sort of songwriting processes and ideas that helped shape the Church album are part of Dark Faerie Tales?
LMJ: Yeah, it’s very much an anything goes follow on, with The Church sound. We’re really proud of this one, just as we are with Church.
I know we’ve talked about the issues with that album and the fact we didn’t chart but, as you mentioned earlier about giving the album a new lease of life, I’d just like a lot more people to hear it, and accept it for what it – and we – are.
That’s why any artist or band puts stuff on Spotify – to be heard; it’s a free shop window for everybody.
If people can’t find you there they assume you don’t exist!
RM: I can’t disagree about the shop window. If you get three thousand, or thirty thousand, or whatever number of streams for a song or an album, suddenly people know of you, might recommend you to others, or even go and see you. What it doesn’t do, of course, is pay the artist or songwriter fairly. It’s a necessary evil.
LMJ: It is, yeah. You hope people will come out and see you, and buy your CD or your vinyl, but if you are not on Spotify, you don’t have the chance to be heard by millions.
RM: In closing, I must ask, do you still have time to pursue your travelling theatre work?
LMJ: Not really. I have had some offers, and turned down one not too long ago that was about five grand for five days, but it fell just as we were getting the album ready.
I think what happens is you make a choice in life with what you are going to do, and I’m doing this with the Gypsy Pistoleros now. It’s weird, because it’s a bit like the old days where it was "oh, you can’t be an actor and a singer." You’re either a musician, or you’re something else.
And to be fair I was a failed singer way before I was an actor [laughter], so I’ve come back to the music!
I’ll tell you what I find bizarre, though. We did some big stuff back when I was in America fifteen or twenty years ago. We toured the States, we played the Whisky, we played with some massive bands, but I don’t remember half of it, because I was a drunk and a speed freak. I do, however, remember opening for W.A.S.P. when I came straight out and fell into the pit on the very first night!
But, even now, when I’m trying to do everything right, I still get some people who say "Oh, I preferred the old Pistoleros." I’m thinking, "God, really?" That first time around we didn’t really write songs, because we just didn’t care. It’s like a rock and roll myth! [laughs]
RM: Well, the rock and roll reality is, with the rebuilt band, and albums such as Church of the Pistoleros, you have the best of your two artistic lives, because there is a theatrical element to the Gypsy Pistoleros.
Rock theatre, if you will.
LMJ: Thank you Ross, I appreciate that, because I brought everything with me from the theatre background.
I have a masters degree in Touring Theatre, although that might as well have been a degree in making chocolate teapots to be fair [laughter]. But if someone comes to watch you, make sure you give them a show.
RM: Regarding your theatre work, I can’t not mention that now classic quote you received for your Edinburgh Fringe show, A Rock’n’Roll Suicide, back in 2019 – "It’s like marmite with crack on it."
Honestly, I’d wear that as badge of honour, because it clearly indicates you have done your job and proven, unequivocally, that art, in any form, is in the eye and ear of the beholder.
LMJ: It was a great quote [laughs]. I’ll tell you something else – you know how everyone puts their four and five star review quotes on their posters? Well, apparently, I was the one of the first that anybody had ever seen put a one star right up to a five star comment on their poster! [loud laughter]
I think it was The Glasgow Reporter that said, and I used this quote, "we should be concerned for his mental well-being!" But then The Stage gave me a four star review, so it was all over the place!
But it’s all good, because what was it Malcom McLaren said, "If they don’t love you, make them hate you."
And I’ll take that because the worst thing, for me, would be if someone came out to one of our gigs and said "erm, yeah, it was all right" [laughs].
RM: Well you needn’t worry, because I very much doubt that’s a quote we’ll ever see on a Gypsy Pistoleros tour poster [laughter].
Thanks for spending time with FabricationsHQ, Lee, and setting the record straight with The Church Of The Pistoleros. Here’s to better things ahead for the album and the Dark Faerie Tales that will follow.
LMJ: Thank you so much Ross, this has been great!
Ross Muir
Muirsical Conversations with Lee Mark Jones
September 2025
Purchase Church Of The Pistoleros on CD & Vinyl (and previous albums The Mescalito Vampires and Duende a Go Go Loco) at: https://www.plastichead.com/artist/gypsy-pistoleros
Read FabricationsHQ's review of the album here.
Official Website: https://gypsypistoleros.com/
Photo credits:
John McIntyre/ Shutter Time Photography (Gypsy Lee Pistolero images)
Gary Cooper Photography (Gypsy Pistoleros live image)
LMJ: Yeah, it’s very much an anything goes follow on, with The Church sound. We’re really proud of this one, just as we are with Church.
I know we’ve talked about the issues with that album and the fact we didn’t chart but, as you mentioned earlier about giving the album a new lease of life, I’d just like a lot more people to hear it, and accept it for what it – and we – are.
That’s why any artist or band puts stuff on Spotify – to be heard; it’s a free shop window for everybody.
If people can’t find you there they assume you don’t exist!
RM: I can’t disagree about the shop window. If you get three thousand, or thirty thousand, or whatever number of streams for a song or an album, suddenly people know of you, might recommend you to others, or even go and see you. What it doesn’t do, of course, is pay the artist or songwriter fairly. It’s a necessary evil.
LMJ: It is, yeah. You hope people will come out and see you, and buy your CD or your vinyl, but if you are not on Spotify, you don’t have the chance to be heard by millions.
RM: In closing, I must ask, do you still have time to pursue your travelling theatre work?
LMJ: Not really. I have had some offers, and turned down one not too long ago that was about five grand for five days, but it fell just as we were getting the album ready.
I think what happens is you make a choice in life with what you are going to do, and I’m doing this with the Gypsy Pistoleros now. It’s weird, because it’s a bit like the old days where it was "oh, you can’t be an actor and a singer." You’re either a musician, or you’re something else.
And to be fair I was a failed singer way before I was an actor [laughter], so I’ve come back to the music!
I’ll tell you what I find bizarre, though. We did some big stuff back when I was in America fifteen or twenty years ago. We toured the States, we played the Whisky, we played with some massive bands, but I don’t remember half of it, because I was a drunk and a speed freak. I do, however, remember opening for W.A.S.P. when I came straight out and fell into the pit on the very first night!
But, even now, when I’m trying to do everything right, I still get some people who say "Oh, I preferred the old Pistoleros." I’m thinking, "God, really?" That first time around we didn’t really write songs, because we just didn’t care. It’s like a rock and roll myth! [laughs]
RM: Well, the rock and roll reality is, with the rebuilt band, and albums such as Church of the Pistoleros, you have the best of your two artistic lives, because there is a theatrical element to the Gypsy Pistoleros.
Rock theatre, if you will.
LMJ: Thank you Ross, I appreciate that, because I brought everything with me from the theatre background.
I have a masters degree in Touring Theatre, although that might as well have been a degree in making chocolate teapots to be fair [laughter]. But if someone comes to watch you, make sure you give them a show.
RM: Regarding your theatre work, I can’t not mention that now classic quote you received for your Edinburgh Fringe show, A Rock’n’Roll Suicide, back in 2019 – "It’s like marmite with crack on it."
Honestly, I’d wear that as badge of honour, because it clearly indicates you have done your job and proven, unequivocally, that art, in any form, is in the eye and ear of the beholder.
LMJ: It was a great quote [laughs]. I’ll tell you something else – you know how everyone puts their four and five star review quotes on their posters? Well, apparently, I was the one of the first that anybody had ever seen put a one star right up to a five star comment on their poster! [loud laughter]
I think it was The Glasgow Reporter that said, and I used this quote, "we should be concerned for his mental well-being!" But then The Stage gave me a four star review, so it was all over the place!
But it’s all good, because what was it Malcom McLaren said, "If they don’t love you, make them hate you."
And I’ll take that because the worst thing, for me, would be if someone came out to one of our gigs and said "erm, yeah, it was all right" [laughs].
RM: Well you needn’t worry, because I very much doubt that’s a quote we’ll ever see on a Gypsy Pistoleros tour poster [laughter].
Thanks for spending time with FabricationsHQ, Lee, and setting the record straight with The Church Of The Pistoleros. Here’s to better things ahead for the album and the Dark Faerie Tales that will follow.
LMJ: Thank you so much Ross, this has been great!
Ross Muir
Muirsical Conversations with Lee Mark Jones
September 2025
Purchase Church Of The Pistoleros on CD & Vinyl (and previous albums The Mescalito Vampires and Duende a Go Go Loco) at: https://www.plastichead.com/artist/gypsy-pistoleros
Read FabricationsHQ's review of the album here.
Official Website: https://gypsypistoleros.com/
Photo credits:
John McIntyre/ Shutter Time Photography (Gypsy Lee Pistolero images)
Gary Cooper Photography (Gypsy Pistoleros live image)