The Difficult Path of True Artistry
Muirsical Conversation With Sandi Thom
Muirsical Conversation With Sandi Thom
Platinum selling Scottish singer-songwriter Sandi Thom is best known for her 2006 double of chart topping single 'I Wish I Was a Punk Rocker (With Flowers in My Hair)' and #1 album Smile… It Confuses People, both of which came on the back of landing a major label contract following her three-week run of live webcast performances from her flat in South London.
But the artistic reality is that’s only part, or start, of the Sandi Thom story.
Moving away from major labels after her second album, Thom became a fully Independent artist who has stayed true to her own path of creative artistry over genre-boxing commerciality, as heard on introspective, and best to date album Ghosts (2019) and a clutch of non-album singles, including latest release 'The Sound Of My Hearbeat.'
She has also toured and performed worldwide, playing both the most prestigious of venues (including The Royal Abert Hall) and more intimate settings, where she performs stripped back, and in some cases re-imagined, songs from her career. Currently Sandi Thom, with guitarist Ben Poole, is undertaking a number of more intimate shows, including a performance at the Oran Mor in Glasgow at the end of February.
Sandi Thom sat in with FabricationsHQ to talk about her career, her upcoming live album, hints about her next studio album, and the difficulties of staying true to yourself, and your artistry, in a world where music, in its most commercial sense, is more about marketable commodity than artistic creativity.
The conversation started however with a look back at the recently undertaken stripped back acoustic gigs…
But the artistic reality is that’s only part, or start, of the Sandi Thom story.
Moving away from major labels after her second album, Thom became a fully Independent artist who has stayed true to her own path of creative artistry over genre-boxing commerciality, as heard on introspective, and best to date album Ghosts (2019) and a clutch of non-album singles, including latest release 'The Sound Of My Hearbeat.'
She has also toured and performed worldwide, playing both the most prestigious of venues (including The Royal Abert Hall) and more intimate settings, where she performs stripped back, and in some cases re-imagined, songs from her career. Currently Sandi Thom, with guitarist Ben Poole, is undertaking a number of more intimate shows, including a performance at the Oran Mor in Glasgow at the end of February.
Sandi Thom sat in with FabricationsHQ to talk about her career, her upcoming live album, hints about her next studio album, and the difficulties of staying true to yourself, and your artistry, in a world where music, in its most commercial sense, is more about marketable commodity than artistic creativity.
The conversation started however with a look back at the recently undertaken stripped back acoustic gigs…
Ross Muir: How did your recent shows at The Boileroom and PizzaExpress Live go?
Sandi Thom: They were great! They were very well attended too, so there was a great energy.
With those shows it was myself, and my guitar player Ben Poole, who is also a great artist in his own right.
So, it’s just the two of us, but we still pack a mighty punch!
RM: And at the Oran Mor later this month two becomes three, because you have Scott Cowie on board on percussion.
ST: Yeah, Scott will be playing with us in Glasgow. Scott has been playing with me for years now; we’ve done loads of gigs together and he’s a very good friend, as is Ben. It’s going to be a great show.
We also have a young Scottish lady called Robin Ashcroft supporting, who is a great up and coming singer-songwriter with a very soulful voice. She kinda reminds me of myself when I was her age, just trying to eke out her own vibe, as it were.
RM: This is the showcasing bonus, if you will, because you are also giving up and coming talent, or those who should be getting more exposure, an opportunity. Another example is Fox Palmer, who supported you recently; she really should be a far bigger blip on the singer-songwriter radar.
ST: Yes, she was at the London show with us. She was great.
I also heard a lot of me in her as well, as I did with Robin.
She has that real dark, bluesy, Americana vibe.
RM: Another similarity is that you are both very much your own artists; you don’t dance to anybody else’s tune, whether that be any mainstream media preference or the radio play listers.
And you’ve never done the same album twice, with each having something to offer, albeit I feel the second one has its weaker moments – but then as you have mentioned in the past that album was a little label forced, and rushed.
ST: I always have danced to my own tune and, generally, as rule of thumb, my whole life has been like that; I’ve never been one for been told what to do! [laughs]
Even with my first record I held the reins, creatively, because everything for that record was already prepared before I signed to a major deal. All the creative processes had already taken place, so everything was just handed over on a plate.
Now, ironically, the second one, which you feel is the weakest, that’s the one I did the most with a major label!
But everything that has followed has been done independently – actually, every record I have done, except that second one, was created fully independently, without anyone else’s vision.
I’ve never really understood why anybody feels the need to be boxed in. The whole point about being a musician, and a creative artist, should be to explore different paths, delve into different genres and open up your horizons. That way you find out who you really are, you know?
RM: I do indeed. I have had a few conversations with musicians that lead to that very summation – a truly creative artist should never really stop searching to find out who they really are, but still able to produce something that is rewarding for the listener and, hopefully, still be able to command some commercial success.
ST: It’s a hard nut to crack though, isn’t it? Especially in the world we live on today, where there are only a few in charge – and that speaks to the music industry as well as the larger world itself.
It’s really difficult to find that balance where you are authentic to yourself, yet also to be successful.
RM: Yes, it’s back to 'you will like' or 'you must like' genre boxes again. I had a conversation, decades back, with a musician who said it’s a shame we couldn’t have record shops where every record was in a plain white sleeve, with no name or genre reference, because it shouldn’t matter a jot who or what it was. You would like it, or you wouldn’t.
ST: That’s a really good idea! It’s also interesting you should say that, because it puts me in mind of my latest release, The Sound Of My Heartbeat, which is an EDM collaboration between myself and production duo The Ex-Presidentz. It's a real floor filler! I also honestly feel that, when people listen to it, they might not even realise that it’s me!
And that, like your record shop idea, is the beauty of it, because there is no pre-conceived idea; just a fresh perspective. I really think it will turn heads, or maybe some people will even go 'oh, wow!' once they realise who it actually is...
Sandi Thom: They were great! They were very well attended too, so there was a great energy.
With those shows it was myself, and my guitar player Ben Poole, who is also a great artist in his own right.
So, it’s just the two of us, but we still pack a mighty punch!
RM: And at the Oran Mor later this month two becomes three, because you have Scott Cowie on board on percussion.
ST: Yeah, Scott will be playing with us in Glasgow. Scott has been playing with me for years now; we’ve done loads of gigs together and he’s a very good friend, as is Ben. It’s going to be a great show.
We also have a young Scottish lady called Robin Ashcroft supporting, who is a great up and coming singer-songwriter with a very soulful voice. She kinda reminds me of myself when I was her age, just trying to eke out her own vibe, as it were.
RM: This is the showcasing bonus, if you will, because you are also giving up and coming talent, or those who should be getting more exposure, an opportunity. Another example is Fox Palmer, who supported you recently; she really should be a far bigger blip on the singer-songwriter radar.
ST: Yes, she was at the London show with us. She was great.
I also heard a lot of me in her as well, as I did with Robin.
She has that real dark, bluesy, Americana vibe.
RM: Another similarity is that you are both very much your own artists; you don’t dance to anybody else’s tune, whether that be any mainstream media preference or the radio play listers.
And you’ve never done the same album twice, with each having something to offer, albeit I feel the second one has its weaker moments – but then as you have mentioned in the past that album was a little label forced, and rushed.
ST: I always have danced to my own tune and, generally, as rule of thumb, my whole life has been like that; I’ve never been one for been told what to do! [laughs]
Even with my first record I held the reins, creatively, because everything for that record was already prepared before I signed to a major deal. All the creative processes had already taken place, so everything was just handed over on a plate.
Now, ironically, the second one, which you feel is the weakest, that’s the one I did the most with a major label!
But everything that has followed has been done independently – actually, every record I have done, except that second one, was created fully independently, without anyone else’s vision.
I’ve never really understood why anybody feels the need to be boxed in. The whole point about being a musician, and a creative artist, should be to explore different paths, delve into different genres and open up your horizons. That way you find out who you really are, you know?
RM: I do indeed. I have had a few conversations with musicians that lead to that very summation – a truly creative artist should never really stop searching to find out who they really are, but still able to produce something that is rewarding for the listener and, hopefully, still be able to command some commercial success.
ST: It’s a hard nut to crack though, isn’t it? Especially in the world we live on today, where there are only a few in charge – and that speaks to the music industry as well as the larger world itself.
It’s really difficult to find that balance where you are authentic to yourself, yet also to be successful.
RM: Yes, it’s back to 'you will like' or 'you must like' genre boxes again. I had a conversation, decades back, with a musician who said it’s a shame we couldn’t have record shops where every record was in a plain white sleeve, with no name or genre reference, because it shouldn’t matter a jot who or what it was. You would like it, or you wouldn’t.
ST: That’s a really good idea! It’s also interesting you should say that, because it puts me in mind of my latest release, The Sound Of My Heartbeat, which is an EDM collaboration between myself and production duo The Ex-Presidentz. It's a real floor filler! I also honestly feel that, when people listen to it, they might not even realise that it’s me!
And that, like your record shop idea, is the beauty of it, because there is no pre-conceived idea; just a fresh perspective. I really think it will turn heads, or maybe some people will even go 'oh, wow!' once they realise who it actually is...
RM: I also believe there may be a live album in the pipeline?
ST: There will be a live album, yes. Actually, it’s already recorded. I made it about a year ago with my band, which included my original drummer Craig Connet, as well as two of the singers I had been singing with when I was eighteen or nineteen in Performing Arts School. So, I kind of got the band back together, in a way!
From that we made a fairly substantial live album, which will be released in the next few months.
We also filmed a portion of it, so there will be some nice Reels and YouTube clips to go with it.
It’s a chronological journey from where I started to where I am now; I revisit all the albums, to some degree, but they’re not really reflective of the originals; I lot of what I do live has grown arms and legs, so some of the songs have moved quite far away from the originals.
Also, I don’t like to pin myself into the recorded format of the song because sometimes it doesn’t translate live in its original form, especially if performing as an Acoustic Duo. We obviously need to do something different with it to make it fit, and to make it work, in that format. And sometimes some of the songs are intentionally different in arrangement, because that’s more interesting for the musicians and for the audience.
RM: Yes, reimagining and reinvention. That leads nicely to a song we can’t not talk about, If I Were a Punk Rocker, a massive chart success for you in 2006 and which you re-recorded, and re-imagined with new lyrics, in 2019.
The original, with lines such as 'When music really mattered and the media couldn't buy your soul' – that’s sadly even more relevant now than twenty years ago.
The re-record, Punk Rocker Reborn, which is on the Ghosts album, is, remarkably and sadly, as equally relevant now as it was just over five years ago – 'When the head of the states tweets every hour; Corrupt and high and drunk on power; Justice doesn't matter, and prejudice is king.'
It’s funny, yet also decidedly unfunny, that a catchy, lyrically insightful pop song can be so spot on, musically and geo-politically.
ST: It is, but the powers that be, they don’t want you to hear songs like that. They don’t want to create any kind of revolution or global uprising; they want you to listen to what they have cherry picked for you to hear.
You’re kept under that thumb! [laughs]
RM: Again, we can laugh, but we shouldn’t. Music, in its most marketable, commercial sense, has become a fast food product, or a 'here’s what we recommend you buy,' or listen to, item.
And in terms of the technology, I worry that in the very near future, could be months, or maybe a year away, I’ll be sent music to review that is not just A.I. generated but so authentic I won’t be able to tell it’s A.I. We’re pretty close to that now.
ST: For sure. It’s becoming more and more common, even in just the way that you can create music, which has become less of an intricate process. You can use A.I. to create a piece of music, but you can also just download samples, or vocal parts, of pre-written verses.
It’s like an exchange of services – for example a singer could upload some vocal content and you pay them a licensing fee to use that on a track. So you can create stuff that way, like a baby putting building blocks together.
But, yes, it’s an interesting point, how far we go with it within the creative world, and the world at large.
For example, if I want to ask a question, or get a definitive answer to something, l will often go and ask Chat GPT, what do I do about this, how do I go about finding that, or what supplements do I need to help me with this research… and it will give a direct answer.
In that respect, A.I. is great, because we are teasing information from it and learning things. But, if you use it to take over the human mind, to create something from scratch, that’s not good. But as an assistant, it’s very helpful.
RM: Indeed. If it’s a case of 'can I help you?' I’m all for that, but when it becomes 'let me do that for you' then we’re all in trouble.
Dropping back to your point about powers that be not wanting to hear particular songs, or cherry picking our choices, I immediately think of two of your more recent single releases, Warpaint, and Silence.
Those songs are two of your most, not just atmospheric, but I would say powerful offerings to date, certainly in lyrically personal weight and your vocal deliveries. Yet they didn’t get the attention, recognition, or airplay they deserved. They just didn’t fly, as they should have.
ST: They didn’t fly, but there is also a reason for that. I don’t put huge budgets into the songs, or hire radio pluggers, like the way we all used to do ten years ago. It costs me nothing to make those tracks and I’m sharing them direct with a particular fanbase, so there’s not really any amount of massive effort.
But sometimes these things just organically grow. My cover of November Rain is a great example of that, because I did nothing to promote the track, but it ended up with fourteen million plays on YouTube; that was simply out of organic reach.
When you’re an Indie artist, you really have to think what is my focus, what is the one track I’m going to put some budget behind, because you don’t have millions of pounds to inject into every song or album.
And sometimes you release music just to make sure you have content out there, stay relevant, and to make sure people remember you. It’s not as if every song you release is with the intention of getting a number one hit, although, of course, that would be great, but it’s not always the driving force.
Warpaint and Silence are great songs, and I’m sure all it would take is for one particularly popular playlist, or one very influential person to pick up on one or both of them, to give the tracks a huge nudge that puts them in front of everyone’s faces. As an Indie artist you sometimes have to rely on those sort of organic methods.
RM: Is it fair to say then that, post debut album and massive hit single, you have become comfortable within yourself as that Independent artist, where bigger commercial success would be great, but it’s more about satisfaction of artistry?
ST: Well, I’ve been on that journey for two decades now. For almost twenty years I’ve gone on this journey of releasing new music for the sake of artistry, and not for the sake of having number one hits.
But I’ve also felt, in a way, that if I was to gain the respect of my peers in the industry, I would have to do that, because I was very quickly labelled a one-hit wonder, having this one song that overshadows the rest.
So I found that I had to go on that journey regardless, to say 'I am a legitimate musician with my own creative processes; I’m a multi-instrumentalist that should be respected for what I do.'
But I had to graft really hard, and for a long time, to be able to get myself in that position. So actually, and ironically, I now find myself in a position where I’m saying 'OK, my son is almost nine years old, he’s growing up, I’ve done the hard graft, now I would like to have another big moment.'
I’ve come full circle and arrived back at that place where I want to go at it again, so I can be well-known for something else, because the last thing I want to do, at the end of my career, is say it was just this one song [laughs]. I need to supersede it, I realise that; so that’s what I want to do now.
RM: Well perhaps the next album will be the spark or catalyst for that next big moment. Clearly what it won’t be is Smile… It Confuses People Part Two…
ST: Yes, exactly! In fact, if anything, it harks back to before Smile… It Confuses People.
I made a record before that one that a lot of people don’t even know exists; it was very soul, funk, and Gospel influenced, and recorded when I was eighteen years old. It’s on Spotify and Amazon Music, if anyone wants to hear it.
RM: Our mentioning of Smile… It Confuses People reminds me of the juxtaposition between its commercial success and the mixed to negative critical reviews, primarily from the newspapers.
That may well have been a backlash to what was perceived as success built on what some saw as no more than a novelty hit single, but that detracts from, and diminishes, how strong an album it was, with deeper cuts such as Castles and Sunset Borderline. That critical opinion against commercial success made for a somewhat extraordinary time.
ST: It was an extraordinary time, but then it was also the time of the digital revolution, and I was part of that revolution.
I became a poster child for that moment in musical history, along with the fact that I had done this series of webcam performances from my basement; that’s what actually got me the attention in the first place.
So, there was a little bit or resentment from the paper media, because what I represented was the time where papers were starting to become obsolete; soon people would be turning to their iPads, iPhones and iTunes, downloading music and all that kind of stuff.
And it wasn’t necessarily about the songs themselves; it was more about the movement, the time and what I represented.
I think I was also, probably, subject to the Build You Up to Knock You Down syndrome, which our media is very well known for. It was never personal, but it does create headlines and keeps people buying newspapers. In fact, I was definitely a victim of Build You Up to Knock You Down! [laughs]
RM: Nor were you the first. One example of many is the late American singer David Cassidy, who had a massive following in the UK in the early seventies. He had his three years of fame before the gloss faded and the media adoration turned to criticism. He read the signs however; one of his mid-seventies albums was titled The Higher They Climb The Harder They Fall, nodding to his chart rise and decline, part of which was due to the critics. A sad reality, and one that hasn’t changed much.
ST: It is a sad reality. I did not face that sort of thing in any other country I visited or played in – in America they were bending themselves over backwards to be nice; Australia was lovely; Europe was great.
I didn’t feel that attitude anywhere other than with the British media. And, as I said, sadly our media is known for that, and not just in music – look at the recent Prince Harry case and the millions of pounds paid out by mainstream media outlets because of the lines they crossed, with people’s privacy.
RM: I’m not sure that will ever change though; that’s what grabs the attention – controversy, intrigue, celebrity rumour, gossip… the bigger the lie, the bigger the attraction.
ST: Of course, people love that sort of thing! [laughs]. I do think however we are now at a point in time where you can’t keep feeding the lie, because this is the age of information.
Too many people know what the truth is; they will read things now and go 'Nah! That’s clearly not true!'
The veil has lifted; people can see for themselves when someone is being exploited, or used, sometimes to create a story that perhaps takes you away from another bigger story that no-one wants you to hear about.
I could have been the victim of a news week where there was some major stuff going on, but everyone said 'no, no, no, let’s just look at Sandi Thom instead!' [laughs]
The thing about media, or anyone who is potentially a media target, is you have to get yourself into a place where you don’t take things personally; and that’s a hard lesson to learn when you’re young.
RM: Yes, unless you are born with a very thick skin or a hard outer shell, that can’t not affect you.
ST: Totally. It can cause massive insecurity in people, or even psychological problems, especially if you read every comment and story written about you, particularly now with Social Media.
Nowadays I don’t get anybody giving me flak but, as I said before, you have to earn that position. I had to go through twenty years of releasing independent music saying I’m doing this, as an authentic musician, irrespective of what your opinion is of me, because this is what I love.
So, no-one in the media gives me crap anymore, because at some point they have to go 'well, all right, she’s earned her stripes; we’ll give her a break.' [laughs]
RM: But then that’s the trick, isn’t it – staying true to yourself, and your artistry, through thick and thin.
ST: Definitely. Just keep being authentic and keep being yourself; do not succumb to anybody else’s influence or vision. If I can finish by giving out just one piece of advice, I’d say do not let anybody influence your decisions as an artist; it’s not their art you are creating, it’s your own.
Everybody has an artistic viewpoint; everybody has their favourite genres; everybody has songs and bands they like more than others. But you, as the artist, absolutely have to stay on your own straight and narrow!
Ross Muir
Muirsical Conversation with Sandi Thom
February 2025
Sandi Thom, with Ben Poole and Scott Cowie, play the Oran Mor in Glasgow on 28th February
Click here for ticket link.
Connect with Sandi Thom at: https://blocc.xyz/sandithom
ST: Well, I’ve been on that journey for two decades now. For almost twenty years I’ve gone on this journey of releasing new music for the sake of artistry, and not for the sake of having number one hits.
But I’ve also felt, in a way, that if I was to gain the respect of my peers in the industry, I would have to do that, because I was very quickly labelled a one-hit wonder, having this one song that overshadows the rest.
So I found that I had to go on that journey regardless, to say 'I am a legitimate musician with my own creative processes; I’m a multi-instrumentalist that should be respected for what I do.'
But I had to graft really hard, and for a long time, to be able to get myself in that position. So actually, and ironically, I now find myself in a position where I’m saying 'OK, my son is almost nine years old, he’s growing up, I’ve done the hard graft, now I would like to have another big moment.'
I’ve come full circle and arrived back at that place where I want to go at it again, so I can be well-known for something else, because the last thing I want to do, at the end of my career, is say it was just this one song [laughs]. I need to supersede it, I realise that; so that’s what I want to do now.
RM: Well perhaps the next album will be the spark or catalyst for that next big moment. Clearly what it won’t be is Smile… It Confuses People Part Two…
ST: Yes, exactly! In fact, if anything, it harks back to before Smile… It Confuses People.
I made a record before that one that a lot of people don’t even know exists; it was very soul, funk, and Gospel influenced, and recorded when I was eighteen years old. It’s on Spotify and Amazon Music, if anyone wants to hear it.
RM: Our mentioning of Smile… It Confuses People reminds me of the juxtaposition between its commercial success and the mixed to negative critical reviews, primarily from the newspapers.
That may well have been a backlash to what was perceived as success built on what some saw as no more than a novelty hit single, but that detracts from, and diminishes, how strong an album it was, with deeper cuts such as Castles and Sunset Borderline. That critical opinion against commercial success made for a somewhat extraordinary time.
ST: It was an extraordinary time, but then it was also the time of the digital revolution, and I was part of that revolution.
I became a poster child for that moment in musical history, along with the fact that I had done this series of webcam performances from my basement; that’s what actually got me the attention in the first place.
So, there was a little bit or resentment from the paper media, because what I represented was the time where papers were starting to become obsolete; soon people would be turning to their iPads, iPhones and iTunes, downloading music and all that kind of stuff.
And it wasn’t necessarily about the songs themselves; it was more about the movement, the time and what I represented.
I think I was also, probably, subject to the Build You Up to Knock You Down syndrome, which our media is very well known for. It was never personal, but it does create headlines and keeps people buying newspapers. In fact, I was definitely a victim of Build You Up to Knock You Down! [laughs]
RM: Nor were you the first. One example of many is the late American singer David Cassidy, who had a massive following in the UK in the early seventies. He had his three years of fame before the gloss faded and the media adoration turned to criticism. He read the signs however; one of his mid-seventies albums was titled The Higher They Climb The Harder They Fall, nodding to his chart rise and decline, part of which was due to the critics. A sad reality, and one that hasn’t changed much.
ST: It is a sad reality. I did not face that sort of thing in any other country I visited or played in – in America they were bending themselves over backwards to be nice; Australia was lovely; Europe was great.
I didn’t feel that attitude anywhere other than with the British media. And, as I said, sadly our media is known for that, and not just in music – look at the recent Prince Harry case and the millions of pounds paid out by mainstream media outlets because of the lines they crossed, with people’s privacy.
RM: I’m not sure that will ever change though; that’s what grabs the attention – controversy, intrigue, celebrity rumour, gossip… the bigger the lie, the bigger the attraction.
ST: Of course, people love that sort of thing! [laughs]. I do think however we are now at a point in time where you can’t keep feeding the lie, because this is the age of information.
Too many people know what the truth is; they will read things now and go 'Nah! That’s clearly not true!'
The veil has lifted; people can see for themselves when someone is being exploited, or used, sometimes to create a story that perhaps takes you away from another bigger story that no-one wants you to hear about.
I could have been the victim of a news week where there was some major stuff going on, but everyone said 'no, no, no, let’s just look at Sandi Thom instead!' [laughs]
The thing about media, or anyone who is potentially a media target, is you have to get yourself into a place where you don’t take things personally; and that’s a hard lesson to learn when you’re young.
RM: Yes, unless you are born with a very thick skin or a hard outer shell, that can’t not affect you.
ST: Totally. It can cause massive insecurity in people, or even psychological problems, especially if you read every comment and story written about you, particularly now with Social Media.
Nowadays I don’t get anybody giving me flak but, as I said before, you have to earn that position. I had to go through twenty years of releasing independent music saying I’m doing this, as an authentic musician, irrespective of what your opinion is of me, because this is what I love.
So, no-one in the media gives me crap anymore, because at some point they have to go 'well, all right, she’s earned her stripes; we’ll give her a break.' [laughs]
RM: But then that’s the trick, isn’t it – staying true to yourself, and your artistry, through thick and thin.
ST: Definitely. Just keep being authentic and keep being yourself; do not succumb to anybody else’s influence or vision. If I can finish by giving out just one piece of advice, I’d say do not let anybody influence your decisions as an artist; it’s not their art you are creating, it’s your own.
Everybody has an artistic viewpoint; everybody has their favourite genres; everybody has songs and bands they like more than others. But you, as the artist, absolutely have to stay on your own straight and narrow!
Ross Muir
Muirsical Conversation with Sandi Thom
February 2025
Sandi Thom, with Ben Poole and Scott Cowie, play the Oran Mor in Glasgow on 28th February
Click here for ticket link.
Connect with Sandi Thom at: https://blocc.xyz/sandithom