FabricationsHQ - Putting the Words to the Music
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  • 2023 Reviews
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    • Robert Berry (March 2021)
    • Dan Reed (February 2021)
    • Steve Hackett (January 2021)
    • John Verity (September 2020)
    • Steve Hackett (July 2020)
    • Gary Moat (March 2020)
    • Steve Hackett (October 2019)
    • Rebecca Downes (May 2019)
    • Ben Poole & Wayne Proctor (January 2019)
    • Dan Reed (November 2018)
    • Del Bromham (October 2018)
    • Brian Downey (September 2018)
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    • Hamilton Loomis (December 2017)
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    • Sari Schorr (August 2016)
    • Mike Vernon (August 2016)
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    • Martin Barre (October 2015)
    • Chris Norman (September 2015)
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    • Ben Poole (April 2015)
    • Alan Nimmo (February 2015)
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    • Bernie Shaw (June 2014)
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    • Pat Travers (September 2013)
    • Steve Hunter (August 2013)
    • Joy Dunlop (March 2013)
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    • Steven Lindsay (July 2012)
    • Dave Cureton (June 2012)
    • Jon Anderson (May 2012)
    • Jeremey Frederick Hunsicker (March 2012)
    • Amy Schugar (Feb. 2012)
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  • A Writer's Muirsings >
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  • Author Bio & Site Info
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  • Sophie Sirota
The contemplative artistry of ambience
Muirsical Conversation with Ali Ferguson
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Ambient focussed Scottish composer and musician Ali Ferguson is probably best known for his touring and recording time with fellow Scot, singer Ray Wilson (Stiltskin, Genesis/Calling All Stations), 80s hit makers Red Box and Scottish folk legend Dougie MacLean.
 
But he has also garnered deserved recognition and acclaim for solo albums The Windmills And The Stars (2011) and A Sequence Of Moments (2016), which blend atmospheric and melodic Gilmour-esque soundscapes with spoken word sections, samples, and electronica.
 
On the outstanding The Contemplative Power Of Water  however, which FabricationsHQ cited as its 2022 Album Of The Year choice, Ali Ferguson has truly found his own voice (in both soft-toned vocal and compositional terms).


Themed around "the re-connection of humans with nature, finding beauty and peace amongst a world full of anger and division and the overwhelming ability for love and kindness to overcome adversity and hatred",  TCPofW is an album that is as widescreen as it is prog, and as ambient as it is, indeed, contemplative.

Ali Ferguson sat in with FabricationsHQ to discuss the album and some of the songs, his previous releases, the art of ambience, and the hard-to-believe fact that he was a cello player long before he picked up a guitar and discovered ambient rock and prog…

​Ross Muir: The Windmill And The Stars is seen, or rather heard, as the origins of your now signature sound and style, because there’s definitely a sonic thread connecting that album to the broader-scoped A Sequence Of Moments and on through to latest solo album, The Contemplative Power of Water.
The question, then, is did you have a concept or conscious approach to how the debut album was going to sound, or was it more a case of a blank canvas for you to sonically create on?

Ali Ferguson: I don’t think it was a conscious effort to make, or have, a particular sound; I just recorded things that I liked. But I’ve always had a great love of ambient music in general, as well as an interest in ambient samples and linking between songs, which kind of came from Roger Waters and Amused To Death. I’ve always loved his linking styles, whether that be a telly in the background, or other sounds.
​
And, of course, David Gilmour is a massive influence, as is Peter Gabriel, along with more ambient artists like Eno. So I guess it’s just a combination of things that I liked coming together to make a sound.
And, yes, there’s definitely a continuous thread through the three of them, although, again, that wasn’t really consciously done. But I do think if you play them back to back to back, they link into each other, as continuous albums.

RM: They do, but not in the sense of variations on a theme; more of a natural progression – which leads to The Contemplative Power of Water.
Compositionally TCPofW is highly creative – there’s a lot going on below the surface and the lyrics are almost mantras. There are also conceptual themes, including that of trying to find peace and beauty in what is a very divisive and angry world.

AF: Yeah, there’s definitely a theme as there was, to a certain extent, on A Sequence Of Moments.
Less so on the first album, though, which started as a group of three, maybe four songs that I had, along with a title
 – The Windmills And The Stars came from when I was touring over in Germany; a lot of the time we would travel by night, passing all the wind farms while I had some ambient music playing in my earphones, staring at windmills and stars. The instrumental and ambient stuff on that album came later on.
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AF: Actually I don’t really write songs – I don’t sit down with an acoustic guitar and write a song, although I have done that – but of all the ones I’ve done like that I don’t think any are on the albums!
With me, a lot of the time, it comes from something like an ambient pad, or perhaps a sample, or even just a loop. From there it’s built from the ground up.

So there is a slight concept to the first album, more of a theme with A Sequence Of Moments and, as you said, much more of a narrative and concept-feel to The Contemplative Power Of Water, particularly with the title track and its three parts, which came together pretty early on. The other pieces were laced between later.
But I don’t ever like to nail it down to a single, defined concept – I always like to have it so that it can mean different things to different people.

RM: Yes, there’s many nuances and layers to TCPofW but the title track, across its three parts, binds the whole thing together with a start, middle and end
 – from your opening narrative to the instrumentally driven second part, and on to the uplifting closing piece, which features the Ferguson family.
Having the family on the concluding piece, which is almost a cry for reconnection and unity, makes perfect sense.

AF: It just felt right on that one, yes. There are also children’s voices on the second album, although none of them are my kids – I put a shout out on Facebook at the time to see if anyone would be up for doing it and then we asked kids some questions; a bit like Dark Side Of The Moon where they asked people to answer various questions, but we did it with children, because their answers are always better!
So, yes, it felt right to have the family on Part 3, although if they had been singing out of tune they wouldn’t have made it on to the album! [laughs].
​
There’s also a bit at the start and end of Part 2, which are recordings of natural sounds and birdsong that my daughter Thea and I did when we were out walking; it’s really just me and her mucking about on a river somewhere, but it’s really nice to have that in there. 

RM: The other aspect of the album I want to mention, and it goes hand in hand with the aural textures, is the sound and production. Your production, along with Graeme Hughes’ mix, beautifully complements and supports the music; there’s so much going on that to make sure every instrument and sound created has its own space and frequency is an art form in and of itself.

AF: Graeme is a massive part of that. I’ve got a tendency, as have many musicians who record on their own, of over-recording and having a million different layers!
I’ll then take all these stems to Graeme and say "Look, I’ve got all these!" And he’ll say "Right, great" [laughs].
But I’ve got a really good relationship with Graeme and his ears are great 
– and how he works with so many frequencies is amazing, but then he has to with this sort of material because, as you said earlier, three’s so much going on that it could easily be lost in the mix.

RM: I also mentioned earlier about having a signature sound but never having it play out as simply variations on a theme.
Keeping ambient music fresh, interesting, or vibrant is paramount, and you do that with the six pieces that accompany the title track’s three movements; 
each with its own flavour.
The Catacombs, for example, is a lovely song that, as FabricationsHQ mentioned in review, is akin to John Martyn with better tech. It also contains one of your best and emotively charged solos to date.

AF: John Martyn is not a name I normally get, or is mentioned, but I’m pleased you did 
– and that’s lovely things to say, thank you.
AF: ​There is definitely a slightly more Scottish flavour on some of the Contemplative album, with folky or Celtic styles – having Ross Ainslie on whistles on The River Crows for example – but a song like The Catacombs is part of my background, through playing with Dougie MacLean and, through Dougie, playing with all these other amazing folk musicians.
I also have a great love for that music, so it was nice to have a little bit of that with The Catacombs.
Melody wise, it definitely has a little bit of that folky side – tempered by that big techno bit in the middle!

RM: But again, that returns to the compositional interest – different colours, different textures.

AF: And that’s perhaps why the album has done really well. The response to it has been phenomenal, and that’s from various people with different tastes, not just those in the prog world; it’s totally crossed over.

RM: And deservedly so. You would also have a longer time to contemplate – no pun intended – given some of this album would have been put together during the pandemic and the subsequent lockdowns.

AF: A lot of it was put together during the pandemic, yes. The covid lockdowns actually worked out all right for me
 – once the blind panic of losing my career was in the rear view mirror [laughs] – because it gave me time to really work on the album, whereas I’m usually working or touring with other people like Ray Wilson, or Red Box, or Dougie.
The lockdowns gave me time to sit myself down and work away, and that was great because I’m not a fast worker at the best of times – and I’m literally doing it all myself for about eighty percent of the time.
So, A, that means it takes longer and, B, there’s no-one else there to tell you when to stop, so I just keep recording guitar solos! [laughs]

RM: Is that when Graeme has to step in and say "OK Ali, that’s plenty..." [laughter]

AF: Oh, it’s too late by then [laughs]; it’s actually my wife Jennie’s job to tell me to come in from the studio and say hello [laughter].      

RM: Love it. You mentioned there about working, recording or touring with others, including Dougie MacLean and Ray Wilson; you’ve also worked with Americana artist Stevie Agnew, to name but three.
That has to be interesting for you as a musician, to be able to explore so many different genres or styles.

AF: Yeah, I’ve done a few albums with Ray, but only one studio album with Dougie
 – Inside The Thunder, which was a really good.
And, yes, it is interesting, absolutely; it also allows for more interest as a guitar player.
But then I love good music in general, I’m certainly not stuck in any one genre. I obviously love the ambient and Floydy stuff but I also listen to lots of Americana and folk
 – and some of the folkier stuff is actually quite proggy. There’s definitely links throughout them all, and it’s nice to be able to blend them within my own stuff.
It’s all paid off so far!

RM: That blend of styles also comes through in your guitar playing; you’re beautifully melodic and have a lovey, emotive style.
And, joking aside regarding your comment about all the guitar solos you record, you play for the song.
It 
would be easy to elongate solos beyond their welcome but you always seem to pull yourself in at the right time.    

AF: Yeah, nine minutes later! [laughs]

RM: [laughs] Well, live perhaps, where you are entitled to go off on one for an extra twenty-four or thirty-six bars; but in the studio, on the recordings, you serve the song.

AF: I hope so. I tend to get put into the prog rock bracket but they’re not proggy songs – the words are very simple and not, as the old joke about prog goes, all about demons and pixies and finding holy swords.
The structures are very simple too, so the guitar solos have to suit that.
But then Floyd were a bit like that too, they weren’t all about playing in 13/8.

RM: Yes, it’s about being progressive in the truest send of the word, with a small p.
There are some great Prog bands out there, with that capital P, but as many, for me, simply reinvent what has gone before but with the keyboard solo in a different place.
The results are not so much progressive rock as regressive rock.

AF: There is a danger of that, yes. But it’s a very broad church in the Prog world and the people I’ve met in that world have always been pretty receptive to what I’ve been doing
 – well, apart from the keyboard warriors you’ll find in Genesis forums all over the world [laughs].
But to be fair it’s the same in any genre, and I’ve always found prog fans to be receptive to any good music, in general. The ones I’ve met are a pretty good bunch of folks.
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RM: To roll right back to something I’ve always been intrigued by…
I believe you started on cello before, years later, playing rock guitar in a covers band?
That’s quite the transition.

AF: I did indeed start with the cello, at the age of five; I was actually quite late in picking up a guitar, certainly in comparison to a lot of other people.
I come from a pretty musical family and my brother, Duncan, is a professional viola player – he’s also on the latest album, playing strings.
I played cello from the age of five until about fifteen, and the guitar only overlapped that for around that last year of cello playing – I was thirteen, maybe fourteen, by the time I actually started playing guitar.

I grew up in a little village called Crossford in Fife, which was also home to Pete Agnew of Nazareth.
Pete kind of took me under his wing and that’s how I got to know his sons, the Agnew brothers, who are all musicians
 –Stevie, who you mentioned earlier, Lee and Chris.
Chris also plays bass on one of the songs on the Contemplative album.
We all just spent every spare minute we had in Pete’s garage, which we turned into a little rehearsal studio, and listened to his records.
That’s pretty much where I started playing the guitar, and by fourteen was in a covers band.
We went around the music pubs, playing the Allman Brothers, Lynyrd Skynyrd and Pink Floyd songs at the age of fourteen… so we were a little bit different from the other covers bands!

RM: But, again, that points to that cross genre diversity and melding of styles – from cello and what I’d imagine to be a classical based beginning to rock covers.
Absorbing all that, at such a young age, would be like a musical sponge.

AF: Yeah, it was. And it also meant my fingertips were already hardened so I didn’t have to go through that pain that all the beginners suffer [laughs]; so it was quite good from a practical point of view, too!

RM: From those beginnings to the present, and a very interesting and musically dovetailing gig in Edinburgh in September.
You’re playing a show with special guests the Blackheart Orchestra, a highly atmospheric, part ethereal part pop-prog duo combining the multi-instrumentation talents of Chrissy Mostyn and Rick Pilkington.
You saw them when they were touring their excellent Hotel Utopia album I believe?

AF: I did, yeah, although I’ve been aware of them for a long time now, through both their music and the social media prog-world.
And to expand on what you just said, there are some bands where you immediately think "that would make for a good night’s music"
 – if they were available, of course.
I went to their gig at Bannermans in Edinburgh with my brother, and we really enjoyed it.
I had a chat with them after their show and said we should try and do something together; both Chrissy and Rick confirmed they’d be up for that.

Now, it just so happened that a chance came up the following week for a gig at The Caves venue in Edinburgh. We had originally been talking with Abel Ganz, who we’ve played with before, about doing The Caves show with them but they have been so active this year, including prog festivals, that they were too busy to take the date.
They did however, very kindly, say that if we wanted the date, it was ours. I immediately said "I will take it and I know exactly who I’m going to ask to do it with me!"
I sent a text to Chrissy the following week and she said "Yes, definitely
 – let’s do it!"    

RM: It’s a great fit and, as I said earlier, a great dovetailing. Also, much like yourself, they are starting to get an audience outside the prog fraternity, which is fully deserved.
I also love Chrissy’s musically self-deprecating put-down on stage when she says "Right, that’s the happy song out the way" [laughter], because in reality there’s an uplifting and heartening undercurrent to a lot of their music.

AF: Yes, there might be melancholy but, despite what Chrissy says, it’s musically uplifting.
I guess that’s also the same with my own stuff to a certain extent; it’s not upbeat, happy music but it’s certainly not sad or depressing – or at least I hope not! [laughs]

RM: Similarly, to return to one of your musical sparring partners, I recall saying to Dougie MacLean a few years ago that Celtic folk and Scottish folk, where Dougie plies his trade, has an inherent melancholy, but it’s a beautiful, uplifting melancholy.

AF: Yes, it’s catching that balance
 – and Dougie, for me, is the master of that.

RM: Agreed, but you and the Blackhearts aren’t too shabby at striking that balance, either.
Thanks for sitting in with FabricationsHQ Ali, and here’s to further crossover success for TCPofW and all future endeavours.

AF: Thank you Ross and thanks for all the support; it’s massively appreciated.
​Ross Muir
Muisical Conversation With Ali Ferguson
August 2023


Ali Ferguson website: https://www.aliferguson.com/
Ali Ferguson Bandcamp-Online Store page: https://aliferguson.bandcamp.com/

​Photo credits: Kevin McCollum (top/ b&w image); 
Dariusz Ptaszyński (lower/ colour image)
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