Classically progressive and all that jazz
Muirsical Conversation with Steve Hackett
Muirsical Conversation with Steve Hackett
This is a busy time for Steve Hackett but then the noted and highly respected guitarist (in many a genre beyond prog) always seems to be releasing product, embarking on a tour or being flagged up as guesting, or collaborating on, another project.
FabricationsHQ caught up with Steve Hackett in a period where product, tour and project were all being released or announced within weeks of each other.
At the end of October last year’s fully orchestrated Genesis Revisited tour was celebrated via the release of the Live at the Royal Festival Hall CD & Blu-Ray while November sees Hackett and his fine band embark on the latest Genesis Revisited and Classic Hackett tour, this time featuring the Genesis album Selling England by the Pound in its entirety and tracks from Hackett’s much loved 1979 solo album, Spectral Mornings.
The following month Steve Hackett will be heard on Back to Sardinia, his second studio album with the exceptionally talented Hungarian jazz-rock band, Djabe.
Steve Hackett took some short time out from preparations for the November tour to talk about all three endeavours as well as his love for, and influence of, orchestration and the classical composers...
FabricationsHQ caught up with Steve Hackett in a period where product, tour and project were all being released or announced within weeks of each other.
At the end of October last year’s fully orchestrated Genesis Revisited tour was celebrated via the release of the Live at the Royal Festival Hall CD & Blu-Ray while November sees Hackett and his fine band embark on the latest Genesis Revisited and Classic Hackett tour, this time featuring the Genesis album Selling England by the Pound in its entirety and tracks from Hackett’s much loved 1979 solo album, Spectral Mornings.
The following month Steve Hackett will be heard on Back to Sardinia, his second studio album with the exceptionally talented Hungarian jazz-rock band, Djabe.
Steve Hackett took some short time out from preparations for the November tour to talk about all three endeavours as well as his love for, and influence of, orchestration and the classical composers...
Ross Muir: If I could start by taking you back to last year’s highly successful and acclaimed Genesis Revisited Band & Orchestra tour, the audio and visual memento of which is the recently released CD and
Blu-ray Live at the Royal Festival Hall – what was the catalyst behind getting fully orchestrated, so to speak...
Steve Hackett: It started as an idea I had about doing a show at the Royal Albert hall with an orchestra; I was sowing that seed with my agents and tour manager and they said "well, actually, we could do six orchestrated shows up and down the UK."
I thought that might be a stretch but before I knew it they had booked them! [laughter]
I had a couple of sleepless nights over that but they sold out almost immediately, so they said "right, let’s put in another couple!" [laughs].
Now I don’t know if that tells you exactly why I had the idea for an orchestra but I just felt a lot of the Genesis stuff, and quite a bit of my own stuff, was orchestral in spirit, if not in practice.
I’ve always loved the mixture of group and orchestra because I think, if you get it right, the amount of potential for a new piece of music is endless.
RM: I would also say, and as I stated in my review of Genesis Revisited Band & Orchestra: Live, this isn’t just Genesis songs with an orchestra, this is Genesis songs truly arranged for orchestra…
SH: Yes! While, originally, the Genesis stuff was arranged for keyboards, bass, drums, guitars and some 12-string, I think much of it alluded to classical music.
Genesis was a kind of mini-orchestra I think, certainly in the early days, and perhaps the most interesting thing about it was the textural side; you listen to early Genesis and you think "what’s actually playing there? Is that a guitar or is that keyboards… or is it a harp?" And in fact it was all of those things!
Those 12-string guitars were put through Leslie cabinets to make them sound a little more like keyboards – in fact it’s great how Genesis always had that kind of desire of keyboard players wanting to be guitarists and guitarists wanting to be keyboard players! [laughter]
It all made for a different kind of sound; one that was very subtle and very impressionistic and not particularly bombastic, certainly not in the early days – I think it became more so later, but that early Genesis music just seemed to be made for stretching out and doing it on a wider canvas,. which we can now do in the present day...
Blu-ray Live at the Royal Festival Hall – what was the catalyst behind getting fully orchestrated, so to speak...
Steve Hackett: It started as an idea I had about doing a show at the Royal Albert hall with an orchestra; I was sowing that seed with my agents and tour manager and they said "well, actually, we could do six orchestrated shows up and down the UK."
I thought that might be a stretch but before I knew it they had booked them! [laughter]
I had a couple of sleepless nights over that but they sold out almost immediately, so they said "right, let’s put in another couple!" [laughs].
Now I don’t know if that tells you exactly why I had the idea for an orchestra but I just felt a lot of the Genesis stuff, and quite a bit of my own stuff, was orchestral in spirit, if not in practice.
I’ve always loved the mixture of group and orchestra because I think, if you get it right, the amount of potential for a new piece of music is endless.
RM: I would also say, and as I stated in my review of Genesis Revisited Band & Orchestra: Live, this isn’t just Genesis songs with an orchestra, this is Genesis songs truly arranged for orchestra…
SH: Yes! While, originally, the Genesis stuff was arranged for keyboards, bass, drums, guitars and some 12-string, I think much of it alluded to classical music.
Genesis was a kind of mini-orchestra I think, certainly in the early days, and perhaps the most interesting thing about it was the textural side; you listen to early Genesis and you think "what’s actually playing there? Is that a guitar or is that keyboards… or is it a harp?" And in fact it was all of those things!
Those 12-string guitars were put through Leslie cabinets to make them sound a little more like keyboards – in fact it’s great how Genesis always had that kind of desire of keyboard players wanting to be guitarists and guitarists wanting to be keyboard players! [laughter]
It all made for a different kind of sound; one that was very subtle and very impressionistic and not particularly bombastic, certainly not in the early days – I think it became more so later, but that early Genesis music just seemed to be made for stretching out and doing it on a wider canvas,. which we can now do in the present day...
RM: So classical themes or orchestration was always an influence?
SH: I always really loved bands who took a chance on working with an orchestra – the Beatles of course, and Procol Harum, who I don’t think always get the credit they are due for having done that.
In Genesis we were very influenced by A Salty Dog, Wreck of the Hesperus and various other things Procol Harum did.
In fact I think that Procol Harum’s Matthew Fisher, and Tony Banks, were of a similar mind in a way; that whole idea of being classically trained but also romantic, with nods in all sorts of other directions.
They both loved pop music but, at the same time, you’ve got this dichotomy of do you want to do a simple pop song or do you do something that shows more harmonic exploration?
RM: As regards the orchestrated material – does that change how you approach playing guitar, or the guitar parts?
SH: Yes it really does. You’ve got to think "right what do I do here?" What do I play with my fingers and what do I Ieave out for the other players, or the full orchestra.
In fact I’ve got that on the go at the moment – I have a guitar in G Minor tuning and I know that I can probably play all the ideas that I’ve got, in one go, on that guitar, if I practice hard enough, but you’ve got to know when to pull back.
But that’s the classical thing, isn’t it? You have all these guys who wrote so wonderfully for orchestras but who probably could have played it all on piano – like Chopin.
But at what point do you make it about the bigger picture – the Tchaikovsky stuff, the Rachmaninoff stuff, the Grieg stuff.
We’re not talking about any pop song writers here are we? We’re talking about people who came up with great melodies having worked their fingers to the bone.
RM: The big hitters of their time.
SH: Yes, the big hitters – but in a time when they really didn’t have such a thing as a big hit!
They were more likely to be playing in salons and the odd concert hall, but that’s part of the sacrifice they had to make, back in the days before musicians became heroes, and all the rest of it…
RM: I shudder when I hear the phrase "guitar hero" or "rock god;" the best musicians and bands can enrich our lives immeasurably through music, but we all put our trousers on one leg at a time…
SH: Yes, exactly! This heroic idea is not what it’s all about and music needs to show some restraint, I think. I’m reading Elton John’s book at the moment and he’s talking about doing a handstand on the piano and all the rest of it, which is great – I understand that, that’s showmanship – but when it comes to listening to a record you haven’t got any of that going on.
No-one knows if you’re tapping on the guitar or plectrum’ing the whole thing, you’ve just got the music, as we have now with all the classical composers – we don’t know if they had great hair, or the looks, we’ve just got those wonderful melodies!
RM: You head back out on the road in November for a tour that will showcase Selling England by the Pound, tracks from one of your most favoured solo albums, Spectral Mornings, and some newer album material.
What led you to deciding to perform a classic Genesis album in its entirety and the choice of Selling England?
SH: Having done the tour last year with the Orchestra, which I’m proud to say is now the album you mentioned, I just felt it was time to do not just one favourite album but two favourites.
Selling England I chose to do in its entirety because I think it’s the most consistent of all the Genesis albums; I don’t think there is a single dull moment on the entire album.
But for me, if I’m honest, when I look back I do think that maybe the execution could have been a bit better in places – but I can do that now, with a band that’s had plenty of time to absorb all this stuff!
With the benefit of hindsight it would have been great to have been able to play it then like we can now, but I’m very proud to bring that album back.
SH: I always really loved bands who took a chance on working with an orchestra – the Beatles of course, and Procol Harum, who I don’t think always get the credit they are due for having done that.
In Genesis we were very influenced by A Salty Dog, Wreck of the Hesperus and various other things Procol Harum did.
In fact I think that Procol Harum’s Matthew Fisher, and Tony Banks, were of a similar mind in a way; that whole idea of being classically trained but also romantic, with nods in all sorts of other directions.
They both loved pop music but, at the same time, you’ve got this dichotomy of do you want to do a simple pop song or do you do something that shows more harmonic exploration?
RM: As regards the orchestrated material – does that change how you approach playing guitar, or the guitar parts?
SH: Yes it really does. You’ve got to think "right what do I do here?" What do I play with my fingers and what do I Ieave out for the other players, or the full orchestra.
In fact I’ve got that on the go at the moment – I have a guitar in G Minor tuning and I know that I can probably play all the ideas that I’ve got, in one go, on that guitar, if I practice hard enough, but you’ve got to know when to pull back.
But that’s the classical thing, isn’t it? You have all these guys who wrote so wonderfully for orchestras but who probably could have played it all on piano – like Chopin.
But at what point do you make it about the bigger picture – the Tchaikovsky stuff, the Rachmaninoff stuff, the Grieg stuff.
We’re not talking about any pop song writers here are we? We’re talking about people who came up with great melodies having worked their fingers to the bone.
RM: The big hitters of their time.
SH: Yes, the big hitters – but in a time when they really didn’t have such a thing as a big hit!
They were more likely to be playing in salons and the odd concert hall, but that’s part of the sacrifice they had to make, back in the days before musicians became heroes, and all the rest of it…
RM: I shudder when I hear the phrase "guitar hero" or "rock god;" the best musicians and bands can enrich our lives immeasurably through music, but we all put our trousers on one leg at a time…
SH: Yes, exactly! This heroic idea is not what it’s all about and music needs to show some restraint, I think. I’m reading Elton John’s book at the moment and he’s talking about doing a handstand on the piano and all the rest of it, which is great – I understand that, that’s showmanship – but when it comes to listening to a record you haven’t got any of that going on.
No-one knows if you’re tapping on the guitar or plectrum’ing the whole thing, you’ve just got the music, as we have now with all the classical composers – we don’t know if they had great hair, or the looks, we’ve just got those wonderful melodies!
RM: You head back out on the road in November for a tour that will showcase Selling England by the Pound, tracks from one of your most favoured solo albums, Spectral Mornings, and some newer album material.
What led you to deciding to perform a classic Genesis album in its entirety and the choice of Selling England?
SH: Having done the tour last year with the Orchestra, which I’m proud to say is now the album you mentioned, I just felt it was time to do not just one favourite album but two favourites.
Selling England I chose to do in its entirety because I think it’s the most consistent of all the Genesis albums; I don’t think there is a single dull moment on the entire album.
But for me, if I’m honest, when I look back I do think that maybe the execution could have been a bit better in places – but I can do that now, with a band that’s had plenty of time to absorb all this stuff!
With the benefit of hindsight it would have been great to have been able to play it then like we can now, but I’m very proud to bring that album back.
SH: It’s also the 40th Anniversary of Spectral Mornings, which is another personal favourite, so I thought I’d try and do that in its entirety, too – but I then realised I couldn’t do that one in its entirety if I was going to feature anything from the current album, At the Edge of Light, which, just before I’d committed to doing those shows, went in to the charts in twelve different countries!
So the quandary becomes do you play your latest small-hit album or do you play the stuff from the past that’s sold in vastly more quantities.
RM: That’s a nice quandary to have though Steve; a celebrated and revered past and a successful, album charting solo career in the present…
SH: Well I try and honour the past big time, as you know, but I have to nod in the direction of the modern stuff. It’s not enough to just keep the museum doors open, I have to be able say "“hey there’s also this stuff too," which is going down very well and creating a new audience.
There are people who come up to me and say "I heard your own stuff first, before I heard any of the Genesis stuff." That might also be, of course, because I’m doing more gigs these days!
RM: In reference to your recent solo work, I believe Wolflight, The Night Siren and At the Edge of Light to be as good a consecutive trio of solo albums as you’ve done, certainly in terms of creative ideas, big, bold musical statements and the light and shade. You are in fine, fine form Mr Hackett.
SH: Thank you for saying so, because I know you’re being honest and not merely flattering me.
RM: Indeed not. I don’t do the Kings New Clothes or, as we’ve mentioned earlier, the whole guitar hero thing…
SH: No you don’t, I realise that, so that’s very nice to hear.
I'm proud of all those albums and I often think I really ought to listen to some of those tracks again – when I’m in the shower I find myself thinking "that was a good song, I must go back and listen to it" but I really don’t have the time; my feet don’t touch the ground these days!
Yes there were lots of ideas on those albums, some of which were orchestral, none more so than on At the Edge of Light.
It was a smaller force but you could say we had an orchestra of about twenty odd people on that album, from all over the world, each an extraordinary player or singer.
So the quandary becomes do you play your latest small-hit album or do you play the stuff from the past that’s sold in vastly more quantities.
RM: That’s a nice quandary to have though Steve; a celebrated and revered past and a successful, album charting solo career in the present…
SH: Well I try and honour the past big time, as you know, but I have to nod in the direction of the modern stuff. It’s not enough to just keep the museum doors open, I have to be able say "“hey there’s also this stuff too," which is going down very well and creating a new audience.
There are people who come up to me and say "I heard your own stuff first, before I heard any of the Genesis stuff." That might also be, of course, because I’m doing more gigs these days!
RM: In reference to your recent solo work, I believe Wolflight, The Night Siren and At the Edge of Light to be as good a consecutive trio of solo albums as you’ve done, certainly in terms of creative ideas, big, bold musical statements and the light and shade. You are in fine, fine form Mr Hackett.
SH: Thank you for saying so, because I know you’re being honest and not merely flattering me.
RM: Indeed not. I don’t do the Kings New Clothes or, as we’ve mentioned earlier, the whole guitar hero thing…
SH: No you don’t, I realise that, so that’s very nice to hear.
I'm proud of all those albums and I often think I really ought to listen to some of those tracks again – when I’m in the shower I find myself thinking "that was a good song, I must go back and listen to it" but I really don’t have the time; my feet don’t touch the ground these days!
Yes there were lots of ideas on those albums, some of which were orchestral, none more so than on At the Edge of Light.
It was a smaller force but you could say we had an orchestra of about twenty odd people on that album, from all over the world, each an extraordinary player or singer.
RM: You also hooked up again lately with another ensemble of extraordinary players, the Hungarian jazz rock band, Djabe.
Your second studio album with Djabe, Back to Sardinia, is released in December – but I believe this time you didn’t go back to Sardinia with them for the compositional recordings?
SH: That’s right. The previous album, Life is a Journey : The Sardinia Tapes, we did together.
It was shared compositionally but was completely improvised; we played for three days, flat out.
(Djabe bass guitarist) Tamás Barabás then worked on the recordings for about three months, made it cohesive and produced what I think is a lovely album.
I was really pleased with the way The Sardinia Tapes came out; I thought it was the best Djabe album ever but if you go and listen to some of their other albums there are great moments on all of them!
The new album has a similar sound but this time I put my stuff on afterwards, in Budapest, where I was based for a couple of days; I couldn’t make the sessions in Sardinia because I was running around doing too many gigs as usual [laughs].
But as companion piece to the first Sardinia album I think it acquits itself very well.
RM: It does indeed; it dovetails beautifully with Life is a Journey, full of lighter jazz and progressive shade.
When anyone asks me about Djabe, or your work with the band, I tend to say "think Pat Metheny in textural soundtrack mode."
SH: Yes, there is an aspect of that; it’s really on that crossroads of jazz and rock.
RM: Classic Genesis, exemplary solo work and Djabe – something for every Steve Hackett fan.
Have a great time 'Selling England' to the audiences in November, Steve, and thanks for talking once again to FabricationsHQ.
SH: Thank you, Ross, and thank you for being so positive and supportive of my work!
Ross Muir
Muirsical Conversation with Steve Hackett
October 2019
Your second studio album with Djabe, Back to Sardinia, is released in December – but I believe this time you didn’t go back to Sardinia with them for the compositional recordings?
SH: That’s right. The previous album, Life is a Journey : The Sardinia Tapes, we did together.
It was shared compositionally but was completely improvised; we played for three days, flat out.
(Djabe bass guitarist) Tamás Barabás then worked on the recordings for about three months, made it cohesive and produced what I think is a lovely album.
I was really pleased with the way The Sardinia Tapes came out; I thought it was the best Djabe album ever but if you go and listen to some of their other albums there are great moments on all of them!
The new album has a similar sound but this time I put my stuff on afterwards, in Budapest, where I was based for a couple of days; I couldn’t make the sessions in Sardinia because I was running around doing too many gigs as usual [laughs].
But as companion piece to the first Sardinia album I think it acquits itself very well.
RM: It does indeed; it dovetails beautifully with Life is a Journey, full of lighter jazz and progressive shade.
When anyone asks me about Djabe, or your work with the band, I tend to say "think Pat Metheny in textural soundtrack mode."
SH: Yes, there is an aspect of that; it’s really on that crossroads of jazz and rock.
RM: Classic Genesis, exemplary solo work and Djabe – something for every Steve Hackett fan.
Have a great time 'Selling England' to the audiences in November, Steve, and thanks for talking once again to FabricationsHQ.
SH: Thank you, Ross, and thank you for being so positive and supportive of my work!
Ross Muir
Muirsical Conversation with Steve Hackett
October 2019
Back to Sardinia by Djabe & Steve Hackett is available on Esoteric Antenna as a CD & DVD digipak.
Steve Hackett photo credit: Official Press photography
Steve Hackett photo credit: Official Press photography