Rolling Sixes
Muirsical Conversation with Robert Berry
Muirsical Conversation with Robert Berry
American singer - songwriter - multi-instrumentalist Robert Berry, best-known for his association with Keith Emerson and Carl Palmer in 80s super-group 3 (there’s also an ongoing solo career, Alliance, The Greg Kihn Band and the recent brace of 3:2 album releases that embodied the musical spirit of his late friend, the aforementioned Keith Emerson), never does things by half.
In fact it’s usually by threes (a significant number in Berry’s musical life and successes).
And now he’s doubling that lucky number to hopefully roll sixes with an International super-group trio.
SiX BY SiX feature Robert Berry (lead vocals, bass, keys) in the company of esteemed Canadian guitarist Ian Crichton (of acclaimed Canadian progressives SAGA) and renowned drummer Nigel Glockler (a 40 year veteran of British metal giants Saxon).
In fact it’s usually by threes (a significant number in Berry’s musical life and successes).
And now he’s doubling that lucky number to hopefully roll sixes with an International super-group trio.
SiX BY SiX feature Robert Berry (lead vocals, bass, keys) in the company of esteemed Canadian guitarist Ian Crichton (of acclaimed Canadian progressives SAGA) and renowned drummer Nigel Glockler (a 40 year veteran of British metal giants Saxon).
The roots of SiX BY SiX can be traced back to the mid-80s when Nigel Glockler and Berry were part of the sadly short-lived revamp of GTR, led by YES guitarist Steve Howe (there’s a later, secondary connection where Ian Crichton and Glockler contributed to some Asia recording sessions).
Flash forward through the decades to the present and SiX BY SiX, a guitar-led, progressively-framed and melodically hewn rock trio with an exceptional debut release that's part rock album, part rock-opera.
(A graphic novel based around the song’s storyline of one man’s internal journey to find answers and happiness in an uncertain world, will follow in the autumn).
Having discussed the 3.2 album projects in detail with FabricationsHQ some 18 months ago, Robert Berry sat in with FabricationsHQ once again to discuss SiX BY SiX and the immediate band simpatico, the creative songwriting process between Berry and Ian Crichton that led to the debut album, the graphic novel tie-in and the hopes and aspirations for a SiX BY SiX future (both live and through further album releases).
Ross Muir: SiX BY SiX is an outstanding piece of work; it’s a fresh, vibrant, dynamic mix of modern hard rock and prog – heavy prock, if you will.
But the get-together of the band, it terms of this being an international trio and how it all came about, sounds as interesting as the album…
Robert Berry: Well, I had finished the last 3.2 album Third Impression which, as you know, I was reluctant to do but very glad I had, once I did it. That was it for me, a trilogy of albums was the way I looked at it – 3, then the two 3.2 albums. That’s it; it’s done.
I can always claim that as part of my history, but what am I going to do next?
And that’s exactly what my manager Nick Shilton, who is in England, said too – "Well, what are you gonna do next?"
I told him I would really like to find the guitar player equivalent of Keith Emerson, because Keith was not only a truly great player, he also sent me these little Emersonian parts to make songs out of.
He’d do these things that were undeniably him – nobody else could be him – and I’d make these songs from them while thinking "I’m really enjoying this camaraderie and the way this all fits together."
But finding a guitar player like that?
Steve Howe and I worked together but he’s not as heavy as I wanted to get; but he plays parts, and that’s what I wanted, a guy that plays parts – he doesn’t just do power chords or rippin’ solos, I want parts.
Nick asked if I had anybody in mind I and I said "Not a clue! Maybe Jeff Beck meets Steve Howe meets Eddie Van Halen? I don’t know!" [laughs]
RM: A simple enough search, then [laughs]…
RB: I know, right? We quoted them all! But, Nick calls me up the next day and says "What about Ian Crichton from Saga?" And I went [snaps fingers] "Exactly!"
Now I wouldn’t have thought of him, and I didn’t know Ian well, but I knew Saga well and that’s when I realised "Oh my God, yeah – he plays stuff, he plays parts, he doesn’t just play those big power chords!"
Nick tracked him down, we got on the phone, and it turned out to be a meeting between two guys, at the right time in their lives, who wanted to do something with the same ideas, as a power trio.
Ian then sent me some of the little guitar nugget pieces he had come up with; I made songs out of them and sent a couple back to him, the first one being Yearning To Fly.
That was the very first song we did and he was like "Wow. I really think we’ve got something here."
Ten songs later, we’re both thinking this is really working out. So, the songs were there but we still needed a drummer, and the guy that was first on my list was Nigel Glockler, whom I had played with on GTR sessions, with Steve Howe.
RM: Someone you know who can deliver that powerful beat and purposeful groove.
RB: Exactly. As I’ve said to people before, It’s like when Alan White joined YES – I loved Bill Bruford but Alan was more a rock drummer; when he came in he really anchored them.
Same when Cozy Powell joined ELP. Of course I love Carl, he’s one of the greatest drummers of all time, but when Cozy was in there it was like having John Bonham in ELP; really solid.
Nigel was that guy, and he loves progressive music. He can play whatever he wants but he’s also used to pounding it and really locking down that rhythm with Saxon.
We’ve stayed in touch over the years, so I call Nigel and he said "I’d be honoured." To which I’m now thinking this is coming together pretty easily!
And it really did come together as organically as that, all wanting to do something viable, as a power trio.
For me it was a chance to do something different from the keyboard music of 3.2; for Ian it was different from a keyboard band like Saga, where he plays the guitar stuff within that keyboard sound; it was chance for Nigel to do something unlike Saxon.
It was also an opportunity for me to do the same sort of things I had done with Keith, but with a guitar player instead of a keyboard player, who wrote incredible parts and could play solos like the Beatles – in that you could sing them back if you wanted to, like Something, or Taxman.
We all just hit it off immediately – it was like Ian just fell out of the sky and Nigel was the finishing touch.
RM: Serendipitous indeed; maybe even musical fate. I agree about Ian; such a lyrical guitarist but he can also shred if needs be – he also has what I describe as a very angular style, which is a major part of Saga's sound.
It’s also interesting, and perhaps appropriate, you wrote Yearning To Fly first because that song, as album opener, encapsulates what SiX BY SiX are all about – big, powerful beat; strong rhythm; that lyrical guitar part; very progressive in arrangement; big, melodic chorus.
Flash forward through the decades to the present and SiX BY SiX, a guitar-led, progressively-framed and melodically hewn rock trio with an exceptional debut release that's part rock album, part rock-opera.
(A graphic novel based around the song’s storyline of one man’s internal journey to find answers and happiness in an uncertain world, will follow in the autumn).
Having discussed the 3.2 album projects in detail with FabricationsHQ some 18 months ago, Robert Berry sat in with FabricationsHQ once again to discuss SiX BY SiX and the immediate band simpatico, the creative songwriting process between Berry and Ian Crichton that led to the debut album, the graphic novel tie-in and the hopes and aspirations for a SiX BY SiX future (both live and through further album releases).
Ross Muir: SiX BY SiX is an outstanding piece of work; it’s a fresh, vibrant, dynamic mix of modern hard rock and prog – heavy prock, if you will.
But the get-together of the band, it terms of this being an international trio and how it all came about, sounds as interesting as the album…
Robert Berry: Well, I had finished the last 3.2 album Third Impression which, as you know, I was reluctant to do but very glad I had, once I did it. That was it for me, a trilogy of albums was the way I looked at it – 3, then the two 3.2 albums. That’s it; it’s done.
I can always claim that as part of my history, but what am I going to do next?
And that’s exactly what my manager Nick Shilton, who is in England, said too – "Well, what are you gonna do next?"
I told him I would really like to find the guitar player equivalent of Keith Emerson, because Keith was not only a truly great player, he also sent me these little Emersonian parts to make songs out of.
He’d do these things that were undeniably him – nobody else could be him – and I’d make these songs from them while thinking "I’m really enjoying this camaraderie and the way this all fits together."
But finding a guitar player like that?
Steve Howe and I worked together but he’s not as heavy as I wanted to get; but he plays parts, and that’s what I wanted, a guy that plays parts – he doesn’t just do power chords or rippin’ solos, I want parts.
Nick asked if I had anybody in mind I and I said "Not a clue! Maybe Jeff Beck meets Steve Howe meets Eddie Van Halen? I don’t know!" [laughs]
RM: A simple enough search, then [laughs]…
RB: I know, right? We quoted them all! But, Nick calls me up the next day and says "What about Ian Crichton from Saga?" And I went [snaps fingers] "Exactly!"
Now I wouldn’t have thought of him, and I didn’t know Ian well, but I knew Saga well and that’s when I realised "Oh my God, yeah – he plays stuff, he plays parts, he doesn’t just play those big power chords!"
Nick tracked him down, we got on the phone, and it turned out to be a meeting between two guys, at the right time in their lives, who wanted to do something with the same ideas, as a power trio.
Ian then sent me some of the little guitar nugget pieces he had come up with; I made songs out of them and sent a couple back to him, the first one being Yearning To Fly.
That was the very first song we did and he was like "Wow. I really think we’ve got something here."
Ten songs later, we’re both thinking this is really working out. So, the songs were there but we still needed a drummer, and the guy that was first on my list was Nigel Glockler, whom I had played with on GTR sessions, with Steve Howe.
RM: Someone you know who can deliver that powerful beat and purposeful groove.
RB: Exactly. As I’ve said to people before, It’s like when Alan White joined YES – I loved Bill Bruford but Alan was more a rock drummer; when he came in he really anchored them.
Same when Cozy Powell joined ELP. Of course I love Carl, he’s one of the greatest drummers of all time, but when Cozy was in there it was like having John Bonham in ELP; really solid.
Nigel was that guy, and he loves progressive music. He can play whatever he wants but he’s also used to pounding it and really locking down that rhythm with Saxon.
We’ve stayed in touch over the years, so I call Nigel and he said "I’d be honoured." To which I’m now thinking this is coming together pretty easily!
And it really did come together as organically as that, all wanting to do something viable, as a power trio.
For me it was a chance to do something different from the keyboard music of 3.2; for Ian it was different from a keyboard band like Saga, where he plays the guitar stuff within that keyboard sound; it was chance for Nigel to do something unlike Saxon.
It was also an opportunity for me to do the same sort of things I had done with Keith, but with a guitar player instead of a keyboard player, who wrote incredible parts and could play solos like the Beatles – in that you could sing them back if you wanted to, like Something, or Taxman.
We all just hit it off immediately – it was like Ian just fell out of the sky and Nigel was the finishing touch.
RM: Serendipitous indeed; maybe even musical fate. I agree about Ian; such a lyrical guitarist but he can also shred if needs be – he also has what I describe as a very angular style, which is a major part of Saga's sound.
It’s also interesting, and perhaps appropriate, you wrote Yearning To Fly first because that song, as album opener, encapsulates what SiX BY SiX are all about – big, powerful beat; strong rhythm; that lyrical guitar part; very progressive in arrangement; big, melodic chorus.
RM: I feel there are three, appropriately enough, critical elements to the sound of SiX BY SiX.
Ian’s guitar work is highly distinctive and is as much the voice of SiX BY SiX as your own lead vocal; Nigel is a great power drummer but here it’s as much about the syncopated rhythms and the groove.
Thirdly, great dynamics – many of the songs suddenly take a different direction, switch key or change time signature. It’s seamless, but the listener is still left thinking "how the hell did we get here, and so quickly?" The answer is usually by a subtle rhythmic shift.
In short, this album is a mighty fine piece of work – and you know if I thought differently, I’d tell you.
RB: Oh I know you well enough that you’d be bawling me out if you thought it didn’t work – "why did you take this turn, Robert?" or "that was a huge mistake!" [laughs] So I really appreciate what you’re saying.
RM: Let me expand a little on why I think it’s so good, with one particular song.
I personally don’t think Casino is ever going to be a contender for best song on the album but it’s one of the most intriguing tracks because it never sits still; it continually changes cadence or rhythm to stay interesting.
While we're talking up the debut we should also point out that SiX BY SiX is not a one-off project band.
RB: No, it’s not. We’re signed for a three-record deal. We’re totally committed to it and we’d also like to tour this band. That’s easier for me as I’m not touring right now, but Ian wants to tour it, although he’ll always have Saga, of course. But he’ll move things around because he wants this to be another mainstay.
And, really, it’s all based around him – I don’t write a song unless Ian sends me a part; I don’t care if it’s only three seconds; he’s got to send me a guitar part that inspires me and then – bang, it just happens.
For me, the genius of this band is in Ian’s guitar writing, and how easy it is for me to then write the verses and a chorus around that, like we were all sitting in the same room!
But, we can’t be this three-piece if Nigel doesn’t lay it down the way he does so Ian can do what he does.
And you’re right, there are parts where you think "how did we get here?" or "that shouldn’t work!"
Ian’s not playing all these fast riffs and power chords, he’s playing parts that sound full, and are a great counterpoint to the vocal.
Ian amazes me. People who know him, or know Saga, know how great he is but his brand – that Ian Crichton brand – is going to be really elevated when people, and other guitar players, realise this guy is really working his butt off to do something other than those big power chords and [mimics a wailing solo].
RM: In terms of Canadian rock guitarists, most rock fans will immediately cite Alex Lifeson, and rightly so, along with the likes of Rik Emmett and Frank Marino – but I think Ian merits being in the same conversations. Alex and Ian are very different guitarists, stylistically, but both are exceptional players.
One, actually two, of Ian’s finest moments on the album are on the atmospheric intro and outro of Reason To Feel Calm Again, the Celtic influenced, eight-minute centrepiece of the album.
RB: I’ve got to tell you, for that song, all Ian sent me was that guitar part that sounded a bit like bagpipes; you know it’s a guitar but it’s so, stylistically, like the pipes!
When he did that, and as I was writing the song, I thought "This has got to be the first song we play live."
Ian's gonna walk out there, maybe with a bit of bass pedal, white spotlight on him as he plays that intro… it gives me chills just thinking about it.
And it means he can take the coke bottle, the cans and all the pennies before I come out and sing! [laughter]
RM: I knew there was an ulterior motive [laughter]. Seriously though, it’s a great scene setting intro and you’re right, it’s very bagpipes, stylistically. The deft and quick note flurries are like the chanter melody while the cry of the guitar becomes the skirl of the pipes, to use our wonderful Scottish word for the sound.
Returning to the guitar-bagpipes refrain for the outro makes it, and the song, all the more emotive.
RB: You know it's funny, he had to fix a couple of notes for me on that because I had added some stuff to it.
He had to slave to get that sound again! It was just such a magic moment when he did it first time around that, to recreate it, he had to really think about it.
And that’s because he wasn’t thinking about it the first time; he just started playing it – but of course when you do that, you don’t necessarily lock in your amp sound, or your guitar sound; so he hard to work hard to recapture it!
Ian’s guitar work is highly distinctive and is as much the voice of SiX BY SiX as your own lead vocal; Nigel is a great power drummer but here it’s as much about the syncopated rhythms and the groove.
Thirdly, great dynamics – many of the songs suddenly take a different direction, switch key or change time signature. It’s seamless, but the listener is still left thinking "how the hell did we get here, and so quickly?" The answer is usually by a subtle rhythmic shift.
In short, this album is a mighty fine piece of work – and you know if I thought differently, I’d tell you.
RB: Oh I know you well enough that you’d be bawling me out if you thought it didn’t work – "why did you take this turn, Robert?" or "that was a huge mistake!" [laughs] So I really appreciate what you’re saying.
RM: Let me expand a little on why I think it’s so good, with one particular song.
I personally don’t think Casino is ever going to be a contender for best song on the album but it’s one of the most intriguing tracks because it never sits still; it continually changes cadence or rhythm to stay interesting.
While we're talking up the debut we should also point out that SiX BY SiX is not a one-off project band.
RB: No, it’s not. We’re signed for a three-record deal. We’re totally committed to it and we’d also like to tour this band. That’s easier for me as I’m not touring right now, but Ian wants to tour it, although he’ll always have Saga, of course. But he’ll move things around because he wants this to be another mainstay.
And, really, it’s all based around him – I don’t write a song unless Ian sends me a part; I don’t care if it’s only three seconds; he’s got to send me a guitar part that inspires me and then – bang, it just happens.
For me, the genius of this band is in Ian’s guitar writing, and how easy it is for me to then write the verses and a chorus around that, like we were all sitting in the same room!
But, we can’t be this three-piece if Nigel doesn’t lay it down the way he does so Ian can do what he does.
And you’re right, there are parts where you think "how did we get here?" or "that shouldn’t work!"
Ian’s not playing all these fast riffs and power chords, he’s playing parts that sound full, and are a great counterpoint to the vocal.
Ian amazes me. People who know him, or know Saga, know how great he is but his brand – that Ian Crichton brand – is going to be really elevated when people, and other guitar players, realise this guy is really working his butt off to do something other than those big power chords and [mimics a wailing solo].
RM: In terms of Canadian rock guitarists, most rock fans will immediately cite Alex Lifeson, and rightly so, along with the likes of Rik Emmett and Frank Marino – but I think Ian merits being in the same conversations. Alex and Ian are very different guitarists, stylistically, but both are exceptional players.
One, actually two, of Ian’s finest moments on the album are on the atmospheric intro and outro of Reason To Feel Calm Again, the Celtic influenced, eight-minute centrepiece of the album.
RB: I’ve got to tell you, for that song, all Ian sent me was that guitar part that sounded a bit like bagpipes; you know it’s a guitar but it’s so, stylistically, like the pipes!
When he did that, and as I was writing the song, I thought "This has got to be the first song we play live."
Ian's gonna walk out there, maybe with a bit of bass pedal, white spotlight on him as he plays that intro… it gives me chills just thinking about it.
And it means he can take the coke bottle, the cans and all the pennies before I come out and sing! [laughter]
RM: I knew there was an ulterior motive [laughter]. Seriously though, it’s a great scene setting intro and you’re right, it’s very bagpipes, stylistically. The deft and quick note flurries are like the chanter melody while the cry of the guitar becomes the skirl of the pipes, to use our wonderful Scottish word for the sound.
Returning to the guitar-bagpipes refrain for the outro makes it, and the song, all the more emotive.
RB: You know it's funny, he had to fix a couple of notes for me on that because I had added some stuff to it.
He had to slave to get that sound again! It was just such a magic moment when he did it first time around that, to recreate it, he had to really think about it.
And that’s because he wasn’t thinking about it the first time; he just started playing it – but of course when you do that, you don’t necessarily lock in your amp sound, or your guitar sound; so he hard to work hard to recapture it!
The parts, and the blend, of SiX BY SiX: Ian Crichton, Nigel Glockler, Robert Berry
RM: Another song I want to mention is China. That song rocks like the proverbial, and lyrically you are not mucking about, as we say over here.
Was that something you had to think about doing, or were you happy expressing and lyricising those political sentiments?
RB: Actually it’s funny how it came about, because although it has almost nothing to do what that song became, there’s a finger picking part in there that Ian had sent me over.
At the same time as he sent it, I’m watching this news story about the persecution of Tibetan monks in China and the oppression of Uyghur Muslims; then I’m seeing these Chinese corporations buying up American farmlands. They are silently infiltrating – they’re not bragging about it, they’re just doing it.
But, fifty years from now they might just pull that switch and say "Sorry guys, this is our world now," right?
Now, I’ve thought about that for my children and that kind of stuff, but I’m not really a big political guy; I’m not getting on the bandwagon and telling people how they should think.
But, when this finger picking riff came in from Ian, I was sort of singing along to it thinking "I wonder what I'll do with this, it’s sort of folky."
But I see those stories, I go to bed, and that riff is still going through my head, it’s like a loop that won't stop.
Then all of a sudden, I sprung up and I sang "Chii-na!" I jumped out of bed and wrote down the words, all to that finger picking riff.
When I got to the studio the next day I thought "I’ve got to do a demo of this, and make it a tough old thing."
That song and those lyrics came out of me by both those things hitting me at the same time – that riff and those stories – and being upset about knowing that, for a while, the Chinese would terminate female births because they wanted more males (the One Child Policy programme). They’ve since stopped that but there are things we know they haven’t stopped; there’s the pollution too, all of that.
So that song just came out of me and I doubt that I’ll get that many people who will disagree that we should at least be watching this Trojan Horse thing with the land purchases.
RM: And you’re in the perfect place with a wonderful cross-cultural pollination in northern California to gauge reaction or get a sense of it.
Although there’s the old adage of write, speak or sing the truth and you’re guaranteed to piss somebody off.
RB: Oh man, the first five or six comments on the video for China? They were something like "You know some person in China is now going to get beat, right?" No, they’re not; read the explanation.
But as you say there’s always somebody, right?
And yes, here in Silicon Valley we have all kinds of Chinese and Japanese friends, because this is the high-tech centre of the world. I checked with a few Chinese friends and they said "Well, if you were in China, you would never talk about this but here, yeah, we talk about it."
There are also strictly Chinese newspapers here that you or I wouldn’t be able to read, but they talk about what China is doing to their people. So, yeah, I felt good about the song – but we’ll see! [laughs]
RM: The bottom line is it’s important you are honest with, and to, yourself as an artist and say what you truly feel needs said. And it’s not controversial, you are highlighting documented facts. This is what’s happening now and this is what it may lead to, decades down the road.
RB: Yeah, exactly; it's the Trojan Horse I mentioned.
Was that something you had to think about doing, or were you happy expressing and lyricising those political sentiments?
RB: Actually it’s funny how it came about, because although it has almost nothing to do what that song became, there’s a finger picking part in there that Ian had sent me over.
At the same time as he sent it, I’m watching this news story about the persecution of Tibetan monks in China and the oppression of Uyghur Muslims; then I’m seeing these Chinese corporations buying up American farmlands. They are silently infiltrating – they’re not bragging about it, they’re just doing it.
But, fifty years from now they might just pull that switch and say "Sorry guys, this is our world now," right?
Now, I’ve thought about that for my children and that kind of stuff, but I’m not really a big political guy; I’m not getting on the bandwagon and telling people how they should think.
But, when this finger picking riff came in from Ian, I was sort of singing along to it thinking "I wonder what I'll do with this, it’s sort of folky."
But I see those stories, I go to bed, and that riff is still going through my head, it’s like a loop that won't stop.
Then all of a sudden, I sprung up and I sang "Chii-na!" I jumped out of bed and wrote down the words, all to that finger picking riff.
When I got to the studio the next day I thought "I’ve got to do a demo of this, and make it a tough old thing."
That song and those lyrics came out of me by both those things hitting me at the same time – that riff and those stories – and being upset about knowing that, for a while, the Chinese would terminate female births because they wanted more males (the One Child Policy programme). They’ve since stopped that but there are things we know they haven’t stopped; there’s the pollution too, all of that.
So that song just came out of me and I doubt that I’ll get that many people who will disagree that we should at least be watching this Trojan Horse thing with the land purchases.
RM: And you’re in the perfect place with a wonderful cross-cultural pollination in northern California to gauge reaction or get a sense of it.
Although there’s the old adage of write, speak or sing the truth and you’re guaranteed to piss somebody off.
RB: Oh man, the first five or six comments on the video for China? They were something like "You know some person in China is now going to get beat, right?" No, they’re not; read the explanation.
But as you say there’s always somebody, right?
And yes, here in Silicon Valley we have all kinds of Chinese and Japanese friends, because this is the high-tech centre of the world. I checked with a few Chinese friends and they said "Well, if you were in China, you would never talk about this but here, yeah, we talk about it."
There are also strictly Chinese newspapers here that you or I wouldn’t be able to read, but they talk about what China is doing to their people. So, yeah, I felt good about the song – but we’ll see! [laughs]
RM: The bottom line is it’s important you are honest with, and to, yourself as an artist and say what you truly feel needs said. And it’s not controversial, you are highlighting documented facts. This is what’s happening now and this is what it may lead to, decades down the road.
RB: Yeah, exactly; it's the Trojan Horse I mentioned.
RM: Lyrically China also differs, in that the majority of lyrics – or loose lyrical theme – revolve around searching for answers, positivity or optimism in a dark world.
That lyrical thread has since become a story that will appear in graphic novel form later in the year.
How did you get from this album, the songs and the lyrics, to a graphic novel tie-in?
RB: That goes back to when I was doing the 3.2 Third Impression album and got an email from an artist named J.C. Baez in Chicago. He said "I’ve been doing stuff with Jon Anderson and guys from Star Trek – I do graphic novels and I really like your music. If you ever want to do something together, I think your lyrics would lend themselves to that."
A couple of years later and this SiX BY SiX album gets done. I’m so proud of it; I’m feeling empowered like I did back in 1988 when Keith, Carl and I first put 3 out.
It’s not only that I’m proud of the album because we did exactly what we wanted to do – it’s because it seems like people genuinely want us to succeed, which you can see from comments on the videos and our Social Media pages. It’s like the support for their favourite sports team – "I hope this is the year that they make it!"
I thought "Wow, that’s so cool, I think I’ll write J.C. and see if he would be interested in doing something with this record." He comes back to say "I'm working on a Steve Hackett art exhibition in LA right now but, yeah, let’s talk!"
So we talk, and he goes "I definitely want to do this with you – what’s the story?" And I go "Story?" [laughter] "Yeah, what’s the story for the album?" It's then I realise he’s thinking how do these songs make a rock opera, and how do we make a story out of it.
Now I’ve never done anything like this before so I say "Let me get back to you in a week, J.C." [laughs]
I go back to the record and change the order of a couple of songs, just juggling it around, trying to make it flow, and all of a sudden this story about a guy, who thinks the world is dark and ugly and everyone in it is mean – kinda like where Social Media is now [laughs] – just comes to me!
This guy sees ugly, because he’s got a little ugly in him. But when he looks at his friends and the people around him, they are trying to influence their immediate circle, or as far as they can reach, to do some good. Those people are happy because they see good, but he doesn’t. He lives in the same block as them but he doesn’t see it. So, he travels through all these ups and downs and by the end he starts to realise we are what we think about.
And that’s definitely true, because all I ever thought about was music. Only other thing I can do is mow lawns [laughs], so it’s either music or mow lawns for me – because that’s what I think about.
So the guy in our story starts to think that way, then he meets a girl who makes him think there’s a reason to live, and all these other different things start to happen.
So, anyway, this is all coming out of me and suddenly, holy smoke, they’re talking about us maybe going to talk at the New York Comic Com in October! I mean, what! [laughs]
RM: That’s great though – a new string to your bow, and potentially a whole new audience, one who will hopefully come to your music from a whole different angle.
RB: Yeah, I’m excited about it. I think the story is a real positive thinking one, and my lyrics come from that viewpoint, usually – Reason to Feel Calm Again, for example, which we talked about earlier.
That song is about realising hey, the sky isn’t falling; so sit back, influence the circle you can influence and we’ll be OK – because we always are.
Even China is positive, in a way, certainly in the sense of hey, we’ve got to look at this. Some of the graphic novel stuff is in the China video; the dragon from the China chapter is in there, and we have the China protest posters, that sort of stuff.
That lyrical thread has since become a story that will appear in graphic novel form later in the year.
How did you get from this album, the songs and the lyrics, to a graphic novel tie-in?
RB: That goes back to when I was doing the 3.2 Third Impression album and got an email from an artist named J.C. Baez in Chicago. He said "I’ve been doing stuff with Jon Anderson and guys from Star Trek – I do graphic novels and I really like your music. If you ever want to do something together, I think your lyrics would lend themselves to that."
A couple of years later and this SiX BY SiX album gets done. I’m so proud of it; I’m feeling empowered like I did back in 1988 when Keith, Carl and I first put 3 out.
It’s not only that I’m proud of the album because we did exactly what we wanted to do – it’s because it seems like people genuinely want us to succeed, which you can see from comments on the videos and our Social Media pages. It’s like the support for their favourite sports team – "I hope this is the year that they make it!"
I thought "Wow, that’s so cool, I think I’ll write J.C. and see if he would be interested in doing something with this record." He comes back to say "I'm working on a Steve Hackett art exhibition in LA right now but, yeah, let’s talk!"
So we talk, and he goes "I definitely want to do this with you – what’s the story?" And I go "Story?" [laughter] "Yeah, what’s the story for the album?" It's then I realise he’s thinking how do these songs make a rock opera, and how do we make a story out of it.
Now I’ve never done anything like this before so I say "Let me get back to you in a week, J.C." [laughs]
I go back to the record and change the order of a couple of songs, just juggling it around, trying to make it flow, and all of a sudden this story about a guy, who thinks the world is dark and ugly and everyone in it is mean – kinda like where Social Media is now [laughs] – just comes to me!
This guy sees ugly, because he’s got a little ugly in him. But when he looks at his friends and the people around him, they are trying to influence their immediate circle, or as far as they can reach, to do some good. Those people are happy because they see good, but he doesn’t. He lives in the same block as them but he doesn’t see it. So, he travels through all these ups and downs and by the end he starts to realise we are what we think about.
And that’s definitely true, because all I ever thought about was music. Only other thing I can do is mow lawns [laughs], so it’s either music or mow lawns for me – because that’s what I think about.
So the guy in our story starts to think that way, then he meets a girl who makes him think there’s a reason to live, and all these other different things start to happen.
So, anyway, this is all coming out of me and suddenly, holy smoke, they’re talking about us maybe going to talk at the New York Comic Com in October! I mean, what! [laughs]
RM: That’s great though – a new string to your bow, and potentially a whole new audience, one who will hopefully come to your music from a whole different angle.
RB: Yeah, I’m excited about it. I think the story is a real positive thinking one, and my lyrics come from that viewpoint, usually – Reason to Feel Calm Again, for example, which we talked about earlier.
That song is about realising hey, the sky isn’t falling; so sit back, influence the circle you can influence and we’ll be OK – because we always are.
Even China is positive, in a way, certainly in the sense of hey, we’ve got to look at this. Some of the graphic novel stuff is in the China video; the dragon from the China chapter is in there, and we have the China protest posters, that sort of stuff.
RM: I’m genuinely looking to forward to the graphic novel because I’m an aficionado of the medium as well as the comic book art form and its history – I’m also still a major Bat-geek at an age where I should know better.
In my office there’s a large bookcase with everything from Tolkien to Plato, but on the opposite wall is a smaller Batcase, with shelves full of graphic novels.
RB: That’s so encouraging for me to hear because while I like to go and see the latest Batman film, and other movies based on super heroes, or from graphic novels, I’ve never been a collector of the source material.
I was always into music, day and night, so I was never into the comic book part of it – I even hate saying comic book instead of graphic novel because I know there is a difference [laughs].
But even J.C. will say "I want that old style comic book look in there" for a certain chapter, like Casino, which you mentioned earlier.
In fact, he’s just sent me some images from the Casino sequence where our protagonist is fighting his way out from some demons, and it looks great.
RM: What’s interesting about all this is the Rush connection. Not so much musically, although there are shimmers of later-era Rush in songs such as The Upside of Down and Save the Night, but in the artistry.
Rush’s final album Clockwork Angels was one of their best-ever; the conceptual theme of that album led to a novel based on the lyrical narrative and, later, a graphic novel.
With SiX By SiX there’s a definite correlation to Clockwork Angels era Rush – not in sound-a-like terms but in the sonic weight of that album, and the visual storytelling the music conjures.
I also think you have, potentially, the same target audience – in fact you’re already building up a healthy fan base, based on the YouTube views for the official videos.
RB: Yeah, Save the Night has caught up to the first release Yearning to Fly now; both are over one hundred thousand. And China, after only a day, had over twelve thousand views; it’s now over sixty thousand.
Plus, you've got to remember it was my idea to keep this band a secret for a whole year! "Oh, let’s not tell anybody!" I mean, wow [laughs]
But that was because I didn’t want another project; I’ve turned down three or four different projects in the last six months, where people wanted me to play on something, but I said "Sorry, I just don’t do that anymore."
I have Alliance, my long-time, straight rock band with Gary Pihl and David Lauser; I have December People for the fun holiday stuff; I have my 3.2 Band with Andrew Colyer, Paul Keller and Jimmy Keegan, which is my history, just like Ian with Saga and Nigel with Saxon.
The 3.2 band will always play if we’re wanted but I really want to focus on SiX BY SiX. I don’t want to say it’s going to be the last thing I ever do because that sounds like I’m getting too old to do anything else; that’s not what I mean – I mean this is what I truly love best.
And, yes, I’m also a keyboard player but guitar is kind of where I like to be; if you listen to some of my songs from before 3.2 you’ll hear that a lot more guitar got added.
It’s like a combination of 3 and Alliance stuck together, isn’t it? But with this great, one of a kind guitar player.
I honestly couldn’t be happier, Ross – but I don't think I ever answered your question! [laughter]
I get so excited about this band and album that I go off at tangents!
RM: Listen, I’m just delighted to hear you so enthused about it; and it wasn’t so much a question as a commentary on the Rush connection and potential audience.
RB: Well Rush is the audience I’d like to get. I think, lyrically, their fans will appreciate what we’re doing – I think our lyrics are intelligent enough, but what do I know? [laughs].
I also think Ian will definitely be appreciated because he’s a great player like, as you said, Alex. People are just going to love him on this record. And, like Nigel, Neal Peart was really solid a lot of the time; he wasn’t always all across his drum kit like, say, Carl Palmer would be.
So, we are kinda in that Rush territory but maybe with a little straighter rock edge to it?
I don’t know for sure, and we’ll have to wait to find out, but I’d love to have that audience accept us and get in to our music.
But I have to tell you, honestly, that I was not a huge Rush fan until I did a tribute album for Magna Carta Records and started to read the lyrics. Don’t get me wrong, I always liked Rush, but that was the "Oh my God" moment; I had no idea it was that deep, you know? But, yeah, that’s the fan base I want.
RM: Regarding the Rush tribute, what songs did you do, or predominately feature on?
RB: I played most of the instruments and lead guitar on The Mission, which featured Eric Martin.
I then did Different Strings on a second, later Rush tribute album. Different Strings is also on my Prime Cuts record; all the tracks on it come from my Magna Carta sessions.
In my office there’s a large bookcase with everything from Tolkien to Plato, but on the opposite wall is a smaller Batcase, with shelves full of graphic novels.
RB: That’s so encouraging for me to hear because while I like to go and see the latest Batman film, and other movies based on super heroes, or from graphic novels, I’ve never been a collector of the source material.
I was always into music, day and night, so I was never into the comic book part of it – I even hate saying comic book instead of graphic novel because I know there is a difference [laughs].
But even J.C. will say "I want that old style comic book look in there" for a certain chapter, like Casino, which you mentioned earlier.
In fact, he’s just sent me some images from the Casino sequence where our protagonist is fighting his way out from some demons, and it looks great.
RM: What’s interesting about all this is the Rush connection. Not so much musically, although there are shimmers of later-era Rush in songs such as The Upside of Down and Save the Night, but in the artistry.
Rush’s final album Clockwork Angels was one of their best-ever; the conceptual theme of that album led to a novel based on the lyrical narrative and, later, a graphic novel.
With SiX By SiX there’s a definite correlation to Clockwork Angels era Rush – not in sound-a-like terms but in the sonic weight of that album, and the visual storytelling the music conjures.
I also think you have, potentially, the same target audience – in fact you’re already building up a healthy fan base, based on the YouTube views for the official videos.
RB: Yeah, Save the Night has caught up to the first release Yearning to Fly now; both are over one hundred thousand. And China, after only a day, had over twelve thousand views; it’s now over sixty thousand.
Plus, you've got to remember it was my idea to keep this band a secret for a whole year! "Oh, let’s not tell anybody!" I mean, wow [laughs]
But that was because I didn’t want another project; I’ve turned down three or four different projects in the last six months, where people wanted me to play on something, but I said "Sorry, I just don’t do that anymore."
I have Alliance, my long-time, straight rock band with Gary Pihl and David Lauser; I have December People for the fun holiday stuff; I have my 3.2 Band with Andrew Colyer, Paul Keller and Jimmy Keegan, which is my history, just like Ian with Saga and Nigel with Saxon.
The 3.2 band will always play if we’re wanted but I really want to focus on SiX BY SiX. I don’t want to say it’s going to be the last thing I ever do because that sounds like I’m getting too old to do anything else; that’s not what I mean – I mean this is what I truly love best.
And, yes, I’m also a keyboard player but guitar is kind of where I like to be; if you listen to some of my songs from before 3.2 you’ll hear that a lot more guitar got added.
It’s like a combination of 3 and Alliance stuck together, isn’t it? But with this great, one of a kind guitar player.
I honestly couldn’t be happier, Ross – but I don't think I ever answered your question! [laughter]
I get so excited about this band and album that I go off at tangents!
RM: Listen, I’m just delighted to hear you so enthused about it; and it wasn’t so much a question as a commentary on the Rush connection and potential audience.
RB: Well Rush is the audience I’d like to get. I think, lyrically, their fans will appreciate what we’re doing – I think our lyrics are intelligent enough, but what do I know? [laughs].
I also think Ian will definitely be appreciated because he’s a great player like, as you said, Alex. People are just going to love him on this record. And, like Nigel, Neal Peart was really solid a lot of the time; he wasn’t always all across his drum kit like, say, Carl Palmer would be.
So, we are kinda in that Rush territory but maybe with a little straighter rock edge to it?
I don’t know for sure, and we’ll have to wait to find out, but I’d love to have that audience accept us and get in to our music.
But I have to tell you, honestly, that I was not a huge Rush fan until I did a tribute album for Magna Carta Records and started to read the lyrics. Don’t get me wrong, I always liked Rush, but that was the "Oh my God" moment; I had no idea it was that deep, you know? But, yeah, that’s the fan base I want.
RM: Regarding the Rush tribute, what songs did you do, or predominately feature on?
RB: I played most of the instruments and lead guitar on The Mission, which featured Eric Martin.
I then did Different Strings on a second, later Rush tribute album. Different Strings is also on my Prime Cuts record; all the tracks on it come from my Magna Carta sessions.
RM: Your mention of keyboards earlier leads me to one, final question.
Some of the SiX BY SiX songs feature keyboards, but as a texture or an accentuation, not a lead instrument.
Were you ever tempted to add more keys, especially given the keyboard immersion of the 3.2 albums?
RB: Even before I started working with Keith Emerson, I always liked tough keyboards – John Lord in Deep Purple, stuff like that. Most keyboard players play a little lighter now; even if it’s not that new age keyboard sound it has that lighter tonality, to me.
But I can’t go tough keyboards when there’s a great guitarist in the band because they will just be fighting with each other. What Rick Wakeman, one of my favourites, did around Steve Howe was amazing; but Steve wasn’t a super heavy guitar player in terms of distortion and big Marshall stacks – they both played parts, and they blended.
RM: Which fittingly brings us back to where we started, with it all being about parts and the simpatico blend between the three of you.
Here's hoping you roll the sixes with this band, the debut album and all subsequent releases, Robert.
RB: Thanks Ross, I really appreciate your support and interest in the album. We’ll talk again soon, so you can give me pointers on graphic novels!
Ross Muir
Muirsical Conversation with Robert Berry
August 2022
SiX BY SiX will be released on August 19th on InsideOut Music
Pre-order: https://www.insideoutshop.de/Artist/SiX_BY_SiX/22539
Pre-order the graphic novel The Journey Internal: http://www.sixbysixband.com/novel.html
Band website: http://www.sixbysixband.com/
J.C. Baez website: https://jcbaezart.com/
Photo Credits: Top image (Robert Berry) - Media Resources at www.robertberry.com
SiX BY SiX band photo - Dave Lepori/ Media Resources
Some of the SiX BY SiX songs feature keyboards, but as a texture or an accentuation, not a lead instrument.
Were you ever tempted to add more keys, especially given the keyboard immersion of the 3.2 albums?
RB: Even before I started working with Keith Emerson, I always liked tough keyboards – John Lord in Deep Purple, stuff like that. Most keyboard players play a little lighter now; even if it’s not that new age keyboard sound it has that lighter tonality, to me.
But I can’t go tough keyboards when there’s a great guitarist in the band because they will just be fighting with each other. What Rick Wakeman, one of my favourites, did around Steve Howe was amazing; but Steve wasn’t a super heavy guitar player in terms of distortion and big Marshall stacks – they both played parts, and they blended.
RM: Which fittingly brings us back to where we started, with it all being about parts and the simpatico blend between the three of you.
Here's hoping you roll the sixes with this band, the debut album and all subsequent releases, Robert.
RB: Thanks Ross, I really appreciate your support and interest in the album. We’ll talk again soon, so you can give me pointers on graphic novels!
Ross Muir
Muirsical Conversation with Robert Berry
August 2022
SiX BY SiX will be released on August 19th on InsideOut Music
Pre-order: https://www.insideoutshop.de/Artist/SiX_BY_SiX/22539
Pre-order the graphic novel The Journey Internal: http://www.sixbysixband.com/novel.html
Band website: http://www.sixbysixband.com/
J.C. Baez website: https://jcbaezart.com/
Photo Credits: Top image (Robert Berry) - Media Resources at www.robertberry.com
SiX BY SiX band photo - Dave Lepori/ Media Resources