Producing the goods
Muirsical Conversation with Mike Vernon
Muirsical Conversation with Mike Vernon
Producer, singer, record label founder and studio owner Mike Vernon is a legend in his own lifetime.
One of the most important individuals in the original British blues scene ("he did more than anyone knows to further the music and nurture the artists" - Mick Fleetwood) Mike Vernon produced a number of significant records in the late 60s and early 70s including the debut albums from Ten Years After, Fleetwood Mac, Savoy Brown, Chicken Shack and one of the greatest blues albums of all time, John Mayall’s Blues Breakers with Eric Clapton.
But it wasn't all about the blues in those early days – an interesting (and originally under the radar) theatrical-pop debut produced by Mike Vernon came from an artist by the name of David Bowie...
Mike Vernon also founded the Blue Horizon record label in 1966 (setting up three other labels in the 1990s) and over a period of thirty-five years would produce close to one hundred albums.
Having moved to Spain at the turn of the Millennium Mike Vernon came out of retirement in 2010 to produce not just albums for British blues singer-guitarists Oli Brown (Heads I Win, Tails You Lose) and Dani Wilde (Shine) but records by Mingo (Balaguer) & The Blues Intruders and Lazy Lester.
That 2010 quartet garnered some attention but it was his back-to-back production jobs in 2016 that, even in their just released and pre-release infancy, were being recognised as something a bit special – Take Me High, the fourth album from young British blues talent Laurence Jones and A Force of Nature, the debut release from powerfully voiced New York native Sari Schorr.
FabricationsHQ spoke to Mike Vernon to discuss Take Me High and A Force of Nature, working with the respective artists (including how he brought out the vocal best in Laurence Jones and his hopes and aspirations for Sari Schorr), the fun he is having fronting his own band The Mighty Combo and a short but vivid reminisce on those history-in-the-making Blues Breakers days…
Ross Muir: Your production previous, especially in the blues genre, speaks for itself but 2016 has seen you at the controls for what I believe to be two of the best blues albums of the year by two of the biggest talents in the modern blues world, Laurence Jones and Sari Schorr.
Starting with Laurence – he’s already an excellent guitar player with solid song writing credentials but this is by far the best I have heard him vocally…
Mike Vernon: It was actually very interesting because when we started we always knew we were going to record the band live and track the vocals afterwards, so that didn’t concern me.
But when it came to Laurence singing the very first song I thought "this is not what I had hoped!" [laughs]
I didn’t give Laurence any direction to start with – I wanted to see just how he would handle it – and it was exactly what I had hoped it would not be.
Laurence wanted a live sound for this album, including the vocals, but he was treating it exactly like being in a studio; he just wasn't opening up.
I had a ten minute talk with him and said "you have a very good voice. It’s very tuneful, your annunciation and phrasing is good and you don’t have any timing issues. But, you need to sing in this studio as if you are singing on stage to an audience."
Because if you want a live sound it’s no good singing to a producer and engineer sitting on the other side of the studio glass; you have to commit yourself to the song as if it's the last time you are ever going to sing it or like you have just been given the chance to sing it to an audience of twenty or thirty thousand.
After we had that chat Laurence said "I’ve never thought about it like that!" and immediately got it; he instantly got that there should be no difference in being recorded in a studio and being recorded – or performing – live.
But, unfortunately, too often that is the issue; very rarely do you ever get a record that truly represents what the act or artist sounds like live.
I think that’s been true in Laurence’s case before but without doubt this is the first time he’s had a record out where the whole band including Laurence, vocally, are so committed that it sounds like a soundtrack to a gig…
One of the most important individuals in the original British blues scene ("he did more than anyone knows to further the music and nurture the artists" - Mick Fleetwood) Mike Vernon produced a number of significant records in the late 60s and early 70s including the debut albums from Ten Years After, Fleetwood Mac, Savoy Brown, Chicken Shack and one of the greatest blues albums of all time, John Mayall’s Blues Breakers with Eric Clapton.
But it wasn't all about the blues in those early days – an interesting (and originally under the radar) theatrical-pop debut produced by Mike Vernon came from an artist by the name of David Bowie...
Mike Vernon also founded the Blue Horizon record label in 1966 (setting up three other labels in the 1990s) and over a period of thirty-five years would produce close to one hundred albums.
Having moved to Spain at the turn of the Millennium Mike Vernon came out of retirement in 2010 to produce not just albums for British blues singer-guitarists Oli Brown (Heads I Win, Tails You Lose) and Dani Wilde (Shine) but records by Mingo (Balaguer) & The Blues Intruders and Lazy Lester.
That 2010 quartet garnered some attention but it was his back-to-back production jobs in 2016 that, even in their just released and pre-release infancy, were being recognised as something a bit special – Take Me High, the fourth album from young British blues talent Laurence Jones and A Force of Nature, the debut release from powerfully voiced New York native Sari Schorr.
FabricationsHQ spoke to Mike Vernon to discuss Take Me High and A Force of Nature, working with the respective artists (including how he brought out the vocal best in Laurence Jones and his hopes and aspirations for Sari Schorr), the fun he is having fronting his own band The Mighty Combo and a short but vivid reminisce on those history-in-the-making Blues Breakers days…
Ross Muir: Your production previous, especially in the blues genre, speaks for itself but 2016 has seen you at the controls for what I believe to be two of the best blues albums of the year by two of the biggest talents in the modern blues world, Laurence Jones and Sari Schorr.
Starting with Laurence – he’s already an excellent guitar player with solid song writing credentials but this is by far the best I have heard him vocally…
Mike Vernon: It was actually very interesting because when we started we always knew we were going to record the band live and track the vocals afterwards, so that didn’t concern me.
But when it came to Laurence singing the very first song I thought "this is not what I had hoped!" [laughs]
I didn’t give Laurence any direction to start with – I wanted to see just how he would handle it – and it was exactly what I had hoped it would not be.
Laurence wanted a live sound for this album, including the vocals, but he was treating it exactly like being in a studio; he just wasn't opening up.
I had a ten minute talk with him and said "you have a very good voice. It’s very tuneful, your annunciation and phrasing is good and you don’t have any timing issues. But, you need to sing in this studio as if you are singing on stage to an audience."
Because if you want a live sound it’s no good singing to a producer and engineer sitting on the other side of the studio glass; you have to commit yourself to the song as if it's the last time you are ever going to sing it or like you have just been given the chance to sing it to an audience of twenty or thirty thousand.
After we had that chat Laurence said "I’ve never thought about it like that!" and immediately got it; he instantly got that there should be no difference in being recorded in a studio and being recorded – or performing – live.
But, unfortunately, too often that is the issue; very rarely do you ever get a record that truly represents what the act or artist sounds like live.
I think that’s been true in Laurence’s case before but without doubt this is the first time he’s had a record out where the whole band including Laurence, vocally, are so committed that it sounds like a soundtrack to a gig…
RM: I mentioned in my review of Take Me High that this album "captures the sound of Laurence Jones and his band" and that Laurence has never sung more confidently.
MV: Thank you. That’s what the remit was though; when we first started talking about the record Laurence said "I want the album to sound like a live show – the songs will be concise and I want them to have the warmness and tightness of a studio recording but with that live sound."
We talked through all those aspects, along with what would be the routine of the recording, and everything we did was exactly as we had planned to do.
RM: Perfect scheme; perfect result.
MV: Well apart from when he suddenly found a new way to play one of the solos and got himself in a bit of a fix working out how he was going to eventually play it!
In fact he did eventually play it a different way, but that’s a great example of a song growing in the studio.
RM: Take Me High is already relatively successful in terms of sales. Within the first week of its release it registered in the Top 200 UK Album Charts and the following week was 33 in the official charts for independent label releases.
For a British blues based rock album, so early in its release, that’s almost unheard of.
MV: It’s great. I never follow the charts, at least not anymore, but that’s a major achievement.
I got involved in production again six years ago when I did an album with Oli Brown but I don’t know that it ever made any sort of chart indent; for Laurence’s album to do so well so quickly is fantastic.
RM: Especially when you consider blues and blues rock, as a genre and an entity, is first and foremost a live beast. So any sort of chart success for the British blues talent pool is a serious marker.
MV: Yes I agree, it really is.
RM: Similarly, Sari Schorr’s debut album A Force of Nature is another blues rock record that deserves to seriously dent the charts. On both sides of the pond.
MV: I’m very happy with the way things are moving for Sari and the album, and that’s before it’s released!
We were actually going to release it earlier, at the beginning of August, but thank God we didn’t because it and Laurence’s album would have trampled over each other and that would have been a disaster.
We obviously have great hopes for it, as we do for Sari in the long-term, but she is an untried talent, even although she has had some serious experience with the Joe Louis Walker Band, touring with Popa Chubby and working as a vocalist and a songwriter in and around New York.
But the signs are, certainly, that we are heading towards the possibility of having a record that might actually outshine itself – there’s a one and a half minute promotional teaser video of Sari singing Kiss Me from a festival she did in France; that video was only on her Facebook page a week and it had cleared fifty thousand views!
RM: Even on that short promo you can see and hear why it, and Sari, are getting attention – you can't not turn your head or prick your ears; Sari has that effervescence, that vocal gravitas, that only a few truly command.
MV: Yes she does and I’m very fortunate – as she perhaps considers herself to be – that we bumped into each other at The Blues Foundation’s International Blues Challenge Awards in Memphis back in January 2015.
Had that fortuitous meeting not happened I would still be none the wiser she existed!
MV: Thank you. That’s what the remit was though; when we first started talking about the record Laurence said "I want the album to sound like a live show – the songs will be concise and I want them to have the warmness and tightness of a studio recording but with that live sound."
We talked through all those aspects, along with what would be the routine of the recording, and everything we did was exactly as we had planned to do.
RM: Perfect scheme; perfect result.
MV: Well apart from when he suddenly found a new way to play one of the solos and got himself in a bit of a fix working out how he was going to eventually play it!
In fact he did eventually play it a different way, but that’s a great example of a song growing in the studio.
RM: Take Me High is already relatively successful in terms of sales. Within the first week of its release it registered in the Top 200 UK Album Charts and the following week was 33 in the official charts for independent label releases.
For a British blues based rock album, so early in its release, that’s almost unheard of.
MV: It’s great. I never follow the charts, at least not anymore, but that’s a major achievement.
I got involved in production again six years ago when I did an album with Oli Brown but I don’t know that it ever made any sort of chart indent; for Laurence’s album to do so well so quickly is fantastic.
RM: Especially when you consider blues and blues rock, as a genre and an entity, is first and foremost a live beast. So any sort of chart success for the British blues talent pool is a serious marker.
MV: Yes I agree, it really is.
RM: Similarly, Sari Schorr’s debut album A Force of Nature is another blues rock record that deserves to seriously dent the charts. On both sides of the pond.
MV: I’m very happy with the way things are moving for Sari and the album, and that’s before it’s released!
We were actually going to release it earlier, at the beginning of August, but thank God we didn’t because it and Laurence’s album would have trampled over each other and that would have been a disaster.
We obviously have great hopes for it, as we do for Sari in the long-term, but she is an untried talent, even although she has had some serious experience with the Joe Louis Walker Band, touring with Popa Chubby and working as a vocalist and a songwriter in and around New York.
But the signs are, certainly, that we are heading towards the possibility of having a record that might actually outshine itself – there’s a one and a half minute promotional teaser video of Sari singing Kiss Me from a festival she did in France; that video was only on her Facebook page a week and it had cleared fifty thousand views!
RM: Even on that short promo you can see and hear why it, and Sari, are getting attention – you can't not turn your head or prick your ears; Sari has that effervescence, that vocal gravitas, that only a few truly command.
MV: Yes she does and I’m very fortunate – as she perhaps considers herself to be – that we bumped into each other at The Blues Foundation’s International Blues Challenge Awards in Memphis back in January 2015.
Had that fortuitous meeting not happened I would still be none the wiser she existed!
RM: Isn’t it wonderful how these meetings of musical minds or serendipitous moments sometime occur; and just when they have to…
MV: It really is; I can only call it destiny. We were supposed to meet and we were supposed to make a record together because I believe in Sari and in her ability to rise above the ordinary and become something really important in the music industry.
RM: There was also a prior chain of events where Sari was in a difficult and unhappy recording situation that, thankfully, she managed to walk away from – before walking towards you in Memphis.
MV: And when you also take that on board you realise some things are just meant to be; our association has led to this first record and, without doubt, what will be a second record.
There will probably be a third record too but no-one can ever see exactly where things will go in the future.
But we have an amazing business relationship and have become close friends – we’re cut from the same mould, see things the same way and almost share a birthday. Our birthdays are only one day apart, although there are a few years between us! [laughs]
We’re also very lucky to have Alan Robinson at Manhaton records who is so committed to Sari for this record and beyond. I’ve known Alan for a long time and have a very high level of respect for him.
RM: Alan’s first class; he’s also building up quite the stable of blues artists – Robin Trower, King King, Stevie Nimmo, Ben Poole and of course Sari, to name but five.
MV: Alan's a really nice guy who is honest, speaks his mind and speaks clearly about what his views are and how he’s going to deal with things. He tries to cover every angle and the team he put together to work on this album and promote Sari is phenomenal.
So, because of that, the reaction we have been getting is great – not so much the fifty thousand Facebook views on the Kiss Me video, which is substantial, but in terms of Shares for it and other videos like Black Betty.
I saw the first, unfinished run of the Black Betty video before it was completed and I thought it was absolutely extraordinary; the initial image of Sari is just fantastic and the song is monumental.
It actually made me want to jump up and down and scream and shout [laughs] – I was just so excited!
RM: Sorry to side-track for a second Mike but it’s fantastic to hear you so enthused and buzzing about an artist in this manner – especially as you've already been there, produced that, and bought the album cover
T-shirt multiple times over...
MV: [laughs] I’m seventy-two in November Ross and I don’t need to do any of this.
But the reason I do it is because I like doing it; I really enjoy it. But there is a pre-requisite and that’s that I have to be totally committed to the project and therefore to the artist.
When I went in to do this new record with Laurence I had already turned an opportunity down to work with him but that was because my now late wife was seriously ill at the time; I just wasn’t in any position to get involved.
But I did say to him that if he wanted to come to me again in the future, when things were different, I’d consider it very seriously – and in fact this time around I didn’t even hesitate, it was a case of "yes, let’s just do it!"
With Sari it was a little different because I guess, to a degree, I feel that I "discovered" her [laughs]; that pretty much made my decision to offer the opportunity to show what she really can do.
And she’s certainly done that with this record – to the extent that I’m actually now worrying that we’ll never be able to better it!
I think we will though because you have to bear in mind this record wasn’t made with the band she now works with. It was made primarily with Spanish session musicians although her now guitarist, Innes Sibun, played on most of the songs and there are guest appearances from Walter Trout and Oli Brown.
But now that she has a fixed, working band, things will change.
RM: I’m delighted Innes has become part of The Engine Room, Sari’s live band. Great player and the perfect fit, or six-string foil, for her.
MV: Innes is a very important cog in the whole machine because he has the same enthusiasm, fire and energy that Sari has. How they work off each other on stage is just great to watch.
RM: You can sense the synergy between them from even just watching a live video.
MV: And it’s just going to get better. Sari is also a very talented songwriter and able to write lyrics with deep meaning; some of the lyrics are very clever. Her talents, along with the band she now has, is why I’m so enthusiastic and so positive about where this is going because in about twelve months we will be looking very seriously at making the second record.
But right now I hope that we get results in terms of chart placings and positive reviews for A Force of Nature because I know we have made a damn good record.
It’s been a long, long time since I made a record that I felt so excited about; the last time was probably the early eighties and the first Level 42 album.
RM: Great album; you also produced Pursuit of Accidents, their 1982 album.
MV: That's another I was very proud of. I should add that there are actually a lot of records since then I have been proud of but many of them had limitations; they may have had a certain shelf life, or only sold in the region of ten, twenty or thirty thousand units, or perhaps the artist was coming to the end of their recording career – I produced Bo Diddley’s last album, A Man Amongst Men, for example.
That’s another record I’m proud of but you couldn’t possibly expect it to outdo, or even match, what he’d done in the past.
MV: It really is; I can only call it destiny. We were supposed to meet and we were supposed to make a record together because I believe in Sari and in her ability to rise above the ordinary and become something really important in the music industry.
RM: There was also a prior chain of events where Sari was in a difficult and unhappy recording situation that, thankfully, she managed to walk away from – before walking towards you in Memphis.
MV: And when you also take that on board you realise some things are just meant to be; our association has led to this first record and, without doubt, what will be a second record.
There will probably be a third record too but no-one can ever see exactly where things will go in the future.
But we have an amazing business relationship and have become close friends – we’re cut from the same mould, see things the same way and almost share a birthday. Our birthdays are only one day apart, although there are a few years between us! [laughs]
We’re also very lucky to have Alan Robinson at Manhaton records who is so committed to Sari for this record and beyond. I’ve known Alan for a long time and have a very high level of respect for him.
RM: Alan’s first class; he’s also building up quite the stable of blues artists – Robin Trower, King King, Stevie Nimmo, Ben Poole and of course Sari, to name but five.
MV: Alan's a really nice guy who is honest, speaks his mind and speaks clearly about what his views are and how he’s going to deal with things. He tries to cover every angle and the team he put together to work on this album and promote Sari is phenomenal.
So, because of that, the reaction we have been getting is great – not so much the fifty thousand Facebook views on the Kiss Me video, which is substantial, but in terms of Shares for it and other videos like Black Betty.
I saw the first, unfinished run of the Black Betty video before it was completed and I thought it was absolutely extraordinary; the initial image of Sari is just fantastic and the song is monumental.
It actually made me want to jump up and down and scream and shout [laughs] – I was just so excited!
RM: Sorry to side-track for a second Mike but it’s fantastic to hear you so enthused and buzzing about an artist in this manner – especially as you've already been there, produced that, and bought the album cover
T-shirt multiple times over...
MV: [laughs] I’m seventy-two in November Ross and I don’t need to do any of this.
But the reason I do it is because I like doing it; I really enjoy it. But there is a pre-requisite and that’s that I have to be totally committed to the project and therefore to the artist.
When I went in to do this new record with Laurence I had already turned an opportunity down to work with him but that was because my now late wife was seriously ill at the time; I just wasn’t in any position to get involved.
But I did say to him that if he wanted to come to me again in the future, when things were different, I’d consider it very seriously – and in fact this time around I didn’t even hesitate, it was a case of "yes, let’s just do it!"
With Sari it was a little different because I guess, to a degree, I feel that I "discovered" her [laughs]; that pretty much made my decision to offer the opportunity to show what she really can do.
And she’s certainly done that with this record – to the extent that I’m actually now worrying that we’ll never be able to better it!
I think we will though because you have to bear in mind this record wasn’t made with the band she now works with. It was made primarily with Spanish session musicians although her now guitarist, Innes Sibun, played on most of the songs and there are guest appearances from Walter Trout and Oli Brown.
But now that she has a fixed, working band, things will change.
RM: I’m delighted Innes has become part of The Engine Room, Sari’s live band. Great player and the perfect fit, or six-string foil, for her.
MV: Innes is a very important cog in the whole machine because he has the same enthusiasm, fire and energy that Sari has. How they work off each other on stage is just great to watch.
RM: You can sense the synergy between them from even just watching a live video.
MV: And it’s just going to get better. Sari is also a very talented songwriter and able to write lyrics with deep meaning; some of the lyrics are very clever. Her talents, along with the band she now has, is why I’m so enthusiastic and so positive about where this is going because in about twelve months we will be looking very seriously at making the second record.
But right now I hope that we get results in terms of chart placings and positive reviews for A Force of Nature because I know we have made a damn good record.
It’s been a long, long time since I made a record that I felt so excited about; the last time was probably the early eighties and the first Level 42 album.
RM: Great album; you also produced Pursuit of Accidents, their 1982 album.
MV: That's another I was very proud of. I should add that there are actually a lot of records since then I have been proud of but many of them had limitations; they may have had a certain shelf life, or only sold in the region of ten, twenty or thirty thousand units, or perhaps the artist was coming to the end of their recording career – I produced Bo Diddley’s last album, A Man Amongst Men, for example.
That’s another record I’m proud of but you couldn’t possibly expect it to outdo, or even match, what he’d done in the past.
Mike Vernon. As a producer, back behind the glass and enjoying every recorded minute of it.
As a singer with The Mighty Combo, clearly having immense fun with material he loves.
RM: I would presume that with Sari, given her sheer vocal presence, you didn’t have to give her much direction or encouragement in the studio?
MV: No, although there were times when we had to talk through the delivery of a song – Walter Trout’s Work No More, for example.
When we sent the song over to Walter he was very complimentary about the vocal but when he sent it back with his guitar on it we looked at each other and said "we have to do the vocal again!" because the guitar was so powerful it actually made Sari’s vocal sound small and puny! [laughs]
But Sari said "I know I can sing this song better than that" – and she did! – but then she also knows what she’s capable of.
Sari is a very professional singer with who’s had operatic training; that’s given her the ability to breath correctly and hold those notes forever [laughs]. She also has a certain quality and a certain sound that is uniquely her.
RM: Her vocal breadth too, which shines on this album; from the unfettered vocal belt of Aunt Hazel to the beautiful, under-stated delivery on Ordinary Life and the hand-on-hip vocal sass of Demolition man...
As a singer with The Mighty Combo, clearly having immense fun with material he loves.
RM: I would presume that with Sari, given her sheer vocal presence, you didn’t have to give her much direction or encouragement in the studio?
MV: No, although there were times when we had to talk through the delivery of a song – Walter Trout’s Work No More, for example.
When we sent the song over to Walter he was very complimentary about the vocal but when he sent it back with his guitar on it we looked at each other and said "we have to do the vocal again!" because the guitar was so powerful it actually made Sari’s vocal sound small and puny! [laughs]
But Sari said "I know I can sing this song better than that" – and she did! – but then she also knows what she’s capable of.
Sari is a very professional singer with who’s had operatic training; that’s given her the ability to breath correctly and hold those notes forever [laughs]. She also has a certain quality and a certain sound that is uniquely her.
RM: Her vocal breadth too, which shines on this album; from the unfettered vocal belt of Aunt Hazel to the beautiful, under-stated delivery on Ordinary Life and the hand-on-hip vocal sass of Demolition man...
RM: Of course Sari wasn’t the only singer in the studio while you were recording A Force of Nature – you started out as a singer and keep yourself vocally fit with your band The Mighty Combo.
There was also your 2015 solo record Just a Little Bit; that’s a great little album of forties and fifties R&B and rock and roll covers…
MV: Yes, that’s all still very much ongoing although The Mighty Combo has since morphed slightly and has been depleted by one player – we’ve brought in a different keyboard player, a different sax player and the harmonica is gone.
We’re also looking to play more frequently next year through the Movinmusic Agency, who work with a lot of blues based acts. That would hopefully be across the UK and Europe, which I’d love to do.
RM: Great stuff. Of course this is not your first foray into performing, recording or singing.
MV: No It's not. I had a couple of flirtations with records back in the early seventies but they were pretty ropey to be honest and I don’t tend to talk about them very often! [laughs]
But then I was kind of reborn with the Olympic Runners, who were a disco styled funk band in the mid to late seventies; I didn’t do any lead singing with them but I played percussion and produced the albums.
Following the Olympic Runners I sang with Rocky Sharpe and The Replays for about three years.
That was enormous fun; I loved all that.
RM: Is the singing something you would have perhaps liked to have pursued in parallel with the production career?
MV: I probably felt I fancied myself as a singer at one point but then thought "no, I’m a producer" and retired as a producer. But then I came back out of retirement to produce and do a bit of singing! [laughs].
Of course my situation is different now – I’ve been a widower since my wife Natalie passed and now find myself with time to pick up where I left off, vocally.
I also feel that my voice is in the best shape it’s ever been in and I’m also writing a lot of songs, which I’m really enjoying. In fact we’re currently turning our repertoire in to a set of around fifty percent original songs and fifty percent covers.
RM: I’m delighted you’re back in a studio producing and back on a stage singing but I’m equally delighted to hear you are writing – and pretty prolifically, by the sounds of it…
MV: Well the idea is that in about a year’s time a sixteen song show will feature only two or three songs that are not original. But as regards covers we just did a video of our version of I Don’t Know Why I Love You But I Do, which was a hit for "Frogman" Henry. I’m sure you know the song.
RM: I do indeed; great R&B crooner-swing standard.
MV: Yes it is and I so love singing it. Some people might think it’s a bit cheesy but I don’t agree; for me it epitomises New Orleans rhythm and blues of the fifties and sixties.
It has a great melody, has great swing to it and I think we’ve done quite a nice, bluesy version of it…
There was also your 2015 solo record Just a Little Bit; that’s a great little album of forties and fifties R&B and rock and roll covers…
MV: Yes, that’s all still very much ongoing although The Mighty Combo has since morphed slightly and has been depleted by one player – we’ve brought in a different keyboard player, a different sax player and the harmonica is gone.
We’re also looking to play more frequently next year through the Movinmusic Agency, who work with a lot of blues based acts. That would hopefully be across the UK and Europe, which I’d love to do.
RM: Great stuff. Of course this is not your first foray into performing, recording or singing.
MV: No It's not. I had a couple of flirtations with records back in the early seventies but they were pretty ropey to be honest and I don’t tend to talk about them very often! [laughs]
But then I was kind of reborn with the Olympic Runners, who were a disco styled funk band in the mid to late seventies; I didn’t do any lead singing with them but I played percussion and produced the albums.
Following the Olympic Runners I sang with Rocky Sharpe and The Replays for about three years.
That was enormous fun; I loved all that.
RM: Is the singing something you would have perhaps liked to have pursued in parallel with the production career?
MV: I probably felt I fancied myself as a singer at one point but then thought "no, I’m a producer" and retired as a producer. But then I came back out of retirement to produce and do a bit of singing! [laughs].
Of course my situation is different now – I’ve been a widower since my wife Natalie passed and now find myself with time to pick up where I left off, vocally.
I also feel that my voice is in the best shape it’s ever been in and I’m also writing a lot of songs, which I’m really enjoying. In fact we’re currently turning our repertoire in to a set of around fifty percent original songs and fifty percent covers.
RM: I’m delighted you’re back in a studio producing and back on a stage singing but I’m equally delighted to hear you are writing – and pretty prolifically, by the sounds of it…
MV: Well the idea is that in about a year’s time a sixteen song show will feature only two or three songs that are not original. But as regards covers we just did a video of our version of I Don’t Know Why I Love You But I Do, which was a hit for "Frogman" Henry. I’m sure you know the song.
RM: I do indeed; great R&B crooner-swing standard.
MV: Yes it is and I so love singing it. Some people might think it’s a bit cheesy but I don’t agree; for me it epitomises New Orleans rhythm and blues of the fifties and sixties.
It has a great melody, has great swing to it and I think we’ve done quite a nice, bluesy version of it…
RM: So onward and upwards for Mike Vernon and The Mighty Combo?
MV: I’m not pessimistic and I’m not optimistic; I’m just hanging in there on this vocal thing! [laughs]
It’s not the most important thing in my life but I do enjoy it, as I said earlier.
I also do it here in Spain – I have a local band of Spanish musicians and we play clubs and festivals.
RM: I’ve seen some clips of the Spanish shows – as with The Mighty Combo, what I hear and see is a singer having tremendous fun.
MV: Exactly. It is a lot of fun and we have a good time doing it; that’s what it’s all about, really.
It has to be fun and when it ceases to be? That’s when I’ll stop.
RM: I played Just a Little Bit recently and what shines through is not just the sheer fun of the performances but your clear love of the material.
MV: Thank you for saying that because I do love that material and you have to look at it from this point of view…
If it hadn’t been for mid-fifties artists like Fats Domino, Little Richard, Larry Williams, Bo Diddley, and slightly further back to guys like Amos Milburn I never would have gone down this road.
I wouldn’t be talking to you now, Ross, and I wouldn’t have these two great records by Laurence and Sari.
I’ve been a professional record producer these fifty-plus years, making records with everyone from Cleo Laine to Level 42 and from Bloodstone to Dr. Feelgood, so while I’ve had my fling making all sorts of music I’m a blues man through and through.
If I go upstairs later to get a CD to play it’s going to be something to do with the blues, that’s for sure!
RM: And is it possible in around twelve months’ time, based on how things are going with your singing and what you’ve been telling me about the songwriting, one of those CD’s could be an album from Mike Vernon and The Mighty Combo?
MV: I’d like to think I will get the chance to make a new album in the next twelve months or so but it’s far more likely to be in the next twenty-four months.
I am going to do one though; I definitely want to make a Mighty Combo CD and obviously I have the studio.
I just need twelve or fourteen songs and three or four days to make it, that’s all; we get in there, we record, and we’re out.
Because, as you know, for me it has to be done as if we’re performing live – I Don't Know Why I Love You was performed and recorded live; we didn't go back and fix anything.
RM: That last comment perfectly sums up your blues and blues rock production modus operandi; it also leads to a final question about the ultimate live in the studio recording…
Does it seem like fifty years since the John Mayall Blues Breakers album with Eric Clapton?
MV: Actually… yes, it does!
RM: [laughs] Well time waits for no man, musician or producer but you know what I’m driving at here – that album has become such a statement in British blues and such an influential and iconic recording that it transcends musical time and space.
MV: Yes, but you can’t ignore the fact that it was fifty years ago.
But the thing is I can still picture it all – I can still see the control room and the studio; I can still see where drummer Hughie Flint was sitting at his kit and where Eric had his amp; where we kept the covers and blankets for the piano.
I can remember exactly where John set up the organ and where Gus Dudgeon, our engineer, sat in the control room.
Of course back then we had no idea what it would become; we were simply trying to create the best live sounding studio recording that represented what John Mayall and the Blues Breakers with Eric Clapton sounded like.
And it is pretty much that, which is basically because of Eric; he was playing so loud that it was just going in everywhere! [laughs]
RM: Courtesy of the now legendary Gibson Les Paul through an overdriven Marshall amplifier; the sound that launched a thousand rock guitarists.
MV: [laughs] Yes, that’s right. It really is an historic record – for many reasons.
RM: And provides us with the perfect way to be Steppin' Out of this conversation.
Mike, thank you so much for your time; it’s been an absolute pleasure and privilege to talk production and blues with you.
MV: You’re very welcome Ross and thank you – much appreciated!
MV: I’m not pessimistic and I’m not optimistic; I’m just hanging in there on this vocal thing! [laughs]
It’s not the most important thing in my life but I do enjoy it, as I said earlier.
I also do it here in Spain – I have a local band of Spanish musicians and we play clubs and festivals.
RM: I’ve seen some clips of the Spanish shows – as with The Mighty Combo, what I hear and see is a singer having tremendous fun.
MV: Exactly. It is a lot of fun and we have a good time doing it; that’s what it’s all about, really.
It has to be fun and when it ceases to be? That’s when I’ll stop.
RM: I played Just a Little Bit recently and what shines through is not just the sheer fun of the performances but your clear love of the material.
MV: Thank you for saying that because I do love that material and you have to look at it from this point of view…
If it hadn’t been for mid-fifties artists like Fats Domino, Little Richard, Larry Williams, Bo Diddley, and slightly further back to guys like Amos Milburn I never would have gone down this road.
I wouldn’t be talking to you now, Ross, and I wouldn’t have these two great records by Laurence and Sari.
I’ve been a professional record producer these fifty-plus years, making records with everyone from Cleo Laine to Level 42 and from Bloodstone to Dr. Feelgood, so while I’ve had my fling making all sorts of music I’m a blues man through and through.
If I go upstairs later to get a CD to play it’s going to be something to do with the blues, that’s for sure!
RM: And is it possible in around twelve months’ time, based on how things are going with your singing and what you’ve been telling me about the songwriting, one of those CD’s could be an album from Mike Vernon and The Mighty Combo?
MV: I’d like to think I will get the chance to make a new album in the next twelve months or so but it’s far more likely to be in the next twenty-four months.
I am going to do one though; I definitely want to make a Mighty Combo CD and obviously I have the studio.
I just need twelve or fourteen songs and three or four days to make it, that’s all; we get in there, we record, and we’re out.
Because, as you know, for me it has to be done as if we’re performing live – I Don't Know Why I Love You was performed and recorded live; we didn't go back and fix anything.
RM: That last comment perfectly sums up your blues and blues rock production modus operandi; it also leads to a final question about the ultimate live in the studio recording…
Does it seem like fifty years since the John Mayall Blues Breakers album with Eric Clapton?
MV: Actually… yes, it does!
RM: [laughs] Well time waits for no man, musician or producer but you know what I’m driving at here – that album has become such a statement in British blues and such an influential and iconic recording that it transcends musical time and space.
MV: Yes, but you can’t ignore the fact that it was fifty years ago.
But the thing is I can still picture it all – I can still see the control room and the studio; I can still see where drummer Hughie Flint was sitting at his kit and where Eric had his amp; where we kept the covers and blankets for the piano.
I can remember exactly where John set up the organ and where Gus Dudgeon, our engineer, sat in the control room.
Of course back then we had no idea what it would become; we were simply trying to create the best live sounding studio recording that represented what John Mayall and the Blues Breakers with Eric Clapton sounded like.
And it is pretty much that, which is basically because of Eric; he was playing so loud that it was just going in everywhere! [laughs]
RM: Courtesy of the now legendary Gibson Les Paul through an overdriven Marshall amplifier; the sound that launched a thousand rock guitarists.
MV: [laughs] Yes, that’s right. It really is an historic record – for many reasons.
RM: And provides us with the perfect way to be Steppin' Out of this conversation.
Mike, thank you so much for your time; it’s been an absolute pleasure and privilege to talk production and blues with you.
MV: You’re very welcome Ross and thank you – much appreciated!
Ross Muir
Muirsical Conversation with Mike Vernon
August 2016
For information on The Mighty Combo: http://www.movinmusic.co.uk/mike_vernon_mighty_combo.htm
Just a Little Bit by Mike Vernon is available on Cambaya Records/ Brand New Music
For FabricationsHQ's Interview Article with Laurence Jones (April 2016) click here
For FabricationsHQ's Interview Article with Sari Schorr (August 2016) click here
Mike Vernon photos by Tony Winfield
Audio tracks presented to accompany the above article and to promote the work of the artists.
No infringement of copyright is intended.
Muirsical Conversation with Mike Vernon
August 2016
For information on The Mighty Combo: http://www.movinmusic.co.uk/mike_vernon_mighty_combo.htm
Just a Little Bit by Mike Vernon is available on Cambaya Records/ Brand New Music
For FabricationsHQ's Interview Article with Laurence Jones (April 2016) click here
For FabricationsHQ's Interview Article with Sari Schorr (August 2016) click here
Mike Vernon photos by Tony Winfield
Audio tracks presented to accompany the above article and to promote the work of the artists.
No infringement of copyright is intended.