Operatic blues with lyrical intent
Muirsical Conversation with Sari Schorr
Muirsical Conversation with Sari Schorr
There can’t be many blues and blues rock fans in the UK and Europe who haven’t become familiar with the name Sari Schorr in 2016; there’s also every chance they will have witnessed the light the blues touch paper New York firecracker in action with her band The Engine Room, featuring British blues guitarist Innes Sibun.
And while Sari Schorr hasn’t been hiding her effervescent light under a blues bushel prior to her emergence as a solo artist (she has toured across the USA and Europe with the Joe Louis Walker Band and Popa Chubby) there is no question she is still best known for her singing and songwriting work in and around New York (crowned by her recent induction in to the New York Blues Hall of Fame).
But New York’s loss is becoming the rest of the blues world’s gain.
A seemingly fortuitous but clearly fated meeting in January 2015 with legendary blues producer Mike Vernon led to a debut album so hotly anticipated that it became one of the most talked about blues rock records of 2016 – a full two months before its official release on Manhaton Records.
Hence the recent Sari Schorr sightings and the start of what is hoped will be a long and successful solo career.
Sari Schorr sat down with FabricationsHQ not once but twice during breaks in a busy touring schedule to extend the conversation beyond new album A Force of Nature and uncover just what makes the extremely talented individual that is Sari Schorr tick.
In a loose and relaxed exchange that varied from serious soul searching to light-hearted and loud laughter, Sari Schorr conversed on how she is channeling when she is creating, becoming a vehicle for the songs when performing live, significant songs from the new album, her beloved Pit bulls, operatic training that was never destined to produce an opera singer, a love for Scotland, spirituality and the importance of Buddhist teachings in her life.
Ross Muir: First off Sari thanks for checking in with FabricationsHQ in what is an incredibly busy time for you as regards promotion for A Force of Nature, your touring schedule and a handful of festival appearances.
Sari Schorr: It’s my absolute pleasure Ross; it’s just so nice to finally get the chance to sit down and talk with you!
RM: It’s become fairly common knowledge in blues rock fandom and the press how you met Mike Vernon in Memphis at the International Blues Challenge back in January 2015. That encounter led to a close friendship, a clear meeting of the musical minds and the recording of your debut album.
So the question becomes not how you met Mike but what it was like to work with one of Britain’s most noted and respected producers…
SS: It was a dream come true. Mike is just so brilliant; he has this way of just bringing out the best in all the artists he works with. I don’t know how he does it [laughs] but he becomes transparent in the process.
He doesn’t force his own sound or imprint his style of production on the project; he just allows it to blossom and then nourishes it in to becoming the greatest piece of work it’s potentially capable of being.
I am just so fortunate that he wanted to do this project.
RM: Actually doubly fortunate – you had a not-so-wonderful and very unhealthy recording relationship prior that you managed to escape from…
SS: Yeah, that’s very true. I was trying to make a record before this with someone who was dealing with a lot of his own, personal issues. I never want to be judgemental – I was telling myself to look past the issues and just get through the process – but it turned out to be so unhealthy that it became impossible.
I would show up at the studio and he wouldn’t be there… or sessions would be cancelled at the last minute… or he would disappear for weeks at a time…
He was a very talented guy but I was trying to record something with a deadline, for a label, and that just killed everything. It got to the stage where I had to say to myself "just quit."
RM: I'm glad you did because that false start and subsequent trip to Memphis led to the perfect musical partnership with Mike.
It’s fascinating how these serendipitous chain of events sometimes manifest themselves.
SS: It is; I absolutely agree with you. It makes me a firm believer in destiny because you certainly couldn’t plan these things!
RM: I could go out for a walk later and bump into somebody wearing the same T-shirt; that’s a passing coincidence. But in the greater scheme of things I firmly believe there are no coincidences.
Call it destiny, call it fate, theorise it how you like, but some things are meant to be – you might not be aware of the mechanics behind it but you do get a sense of it.
SS: Mike felt the same way; it was just the right time in his life and the right time in my life for something like that to happen. When things are meant to be you’re right, you do get a sense of that, because things are not as difficult any longer; things just flow and happen naturally.
RM: The other side to this is Mike was so excited to be working with you; something that was evident when FabricationsHQ chatted to him recently.
To hear someone like Mike, with all his decades of experience in the business, be this enthused about an artist, was fantastic – and quite the compliment to your talents.
SS: That’s lovely to hear; thank you. I have to also say however that Mike lost his wife, Natalie, just about a year before we got together to do this album and that had a lot to do with us being able to work together. Mike was just at that point where he was coming out of mourning and felt ready to take on something new and get back in to production work.
RM: It’s also quite poignant to note that Natalie played her part in one of the songs on the album, which we’ll talk about a little later.
There are a number of things that impress me about A Force of Nature, not the least of which is your lyric writing and wordplay ability. This is not a "oh my baby left me" blues based album; this is an album full of real life lyricism and weightier subjects that help give it such gravitas.
SS: Thank you so much for recognising that because that’s where the real hard work is.
I find writing the music very easy – melodies come very quickly for me – but the price I pay for that is that I really toil and struggle with the lyrics. It takes me a long time before I think a lyric is really done.
And I want to talk about things that are relevant and important to people’s lives; I try not to be judgemental and you never want to be preachy but I want to somehow convey the feeling that we are all spiritual beings having a human experience – we’re not here to judge each other, we are here to love each other and help each other.
So when I approach subjects like domestic violence or drug addiction – and I have a song about terrorism that’s going to be on the next record – that allows me to expand the dialogue and give a more balanced perspective. The conversation can be more honest.
RM: Terrorism is a weighty subject to take on at the best of times, but in the current climate?
I could give you arguments for that being everything from brave to dangerous to controversial…
SS: Yeah, but you know as well as I do, and like all these subjects, life is not lived in black and white.
There’s a truth in the middle which is every shade of grey; there’s no-one that’s all good or all evil.
I think what we need, especially nowadays, is to have more compassion for each other; the world is this big mess with fear driving everything and we just seem to be inciting more fear and hatred in people's hearts.
It’s not good.
RM: No it’s not. It’s interesting to hear your thoughts on fated paths, the belief that we are spiritual beings having a human experience and compassion because my wife Anne is a Buddhist and would echo your sentiments. I have the utmost time and respect for Buddhism; for me it’s not so much a religion as the art of understanding, human decency and compassion.
SS: I’ve been studying Buddhism for a long, long time and would agree with you there, too.
But I’ll tell you the strangest thing… I am a professional singer who is not comfortable chanting!
RM: [laughs] Seriously? I thought that would come with the territory, or come naturally, to you.
SS: No, it’s true, go figure – I am not a chanter! [laughs]
RM: Well you might not be comfortable with Buddhist chants but you certainly delivered on your slave chant interpretation of the Lead Belly classic Black Betty. That’s an astonishing, and powerful, cover.
SS: Thank you so much. That song was actually chosen for me to sing by the producers of the Lead Belly Fest when I was invited to perform at that event at Carnegie Hall in New York.
But I nearly had a heart attack when I was told I was to be part of the show – I was honestly thinking "what have I gotten myself in to!" because this song is so weighty and so powerful that I hadn’t managed to get through it at any of the rehearsals. I even managed to mess it up at the sound check!
By that point I was thinking "Great, I’m going to embarrass myself at something that is such an honour to be a part of and with such an important song."
But once I really got in to the lyric and understood what I thought Lead Belly was trying to say I became totally transparent and just allowed the song to pass through me; I became a vehicle for it.
It was only then that the stars aligned and I had a flawless performance.
But that song still scares me; there are times that I’ll look at our guitarist Innes before a show and say "I don’t think I’m up to Black Betty tonight" because it takes so much out of me.
Innes will smile at me and say "OK, that’s fine, don’t worry; if it’s too hard you don’t have to do it."
But that’s when I’ll say "damn!"[laughs] because now I have to do it because Innes knows I don’t want anything easy!
RM: I can totally understand that because I know how high a bar you set for yourself.
You’re probably your own biggest critic…
SS: Yep; I am! [laughs]
And while Sari Schorr hasn’t been hiding her effervescent light under a blues bushel prior to her emergence as a solo artist (she has toured across the USA and Europe with the Joe Louis Walker Band and Popa Chubby) there is no question she is still best known for her singing and songwriting work in and around New York (crowned by her recent induction in to the New York Blues Hall of Fame).
But New York’s loss is becoming the rest of the blues world’s gain.
A seemingly fortuitous but clearly fated meeting in January 2015 with legendary blues producer Mike Vernon led to a debut album so hotly anticipated that it became one of the most talked about blues rock records of 2016 – a full two months before its official release on Manhaton Records.
Hence the recent Sari Schorr sightings and the start of what is hoped will be a long and successful solo career.
Sari Schorr sat down with FabricationsHQ not once but twice during breaks in a busy touring schedule to extend the conversation beyond new album A Force of Nature and uncover just what makes the extremely talented individual that is Sari Schorr tick.
In a loose and relaxed exchange that varied from serious soul searching to light-hearted and loud laughter, Sari Schorr conversed on how she is channeling when she is creating, becoming a vehicle for the songs when performing live, significant songs from the new album, her beloved Pit bulls, operatic training that was never destined to produce an opera singer, a love for Scotland, spirituality and the importance of Buddhist teachings in her life.
Ross Muir: First off Sari thanks for checking in with FabricationsHQ in what is an incredibly busy time for you as regards promotion for A Force of Nature, your touring schedule and a handful of festival appearances.
Sari Schorr: It’s my absolute pleasure Ross; it’s just so nice to finally get the chance to sit down and talk with you!
RM: It’s become fairly common knowledge in blues rock fandom and the press how you met Mike Vernon in Memphis at the International Blues Challenge back in January 2015. That encounter led to a close friendship, a clear meeting of the musical minds and the recording of your debut album.
So the question becomes not how you met Mike but what it was like to work with one of Britain’s most noted and respected producers…
SS: It was a dream come true. Mike is just so brilliant; he has this way of just bringing out the best in all the artists he works with. I don’t know how he does it [laughs] but he becomes transparent in the process.
He doesn’t force his own sound or imprint his style of production on the project; he just allows it to blossom and then nourishes it in to becoming the greatest piece of work it’s potentially capable of being.
I am just so fortunate that he wanted to do this project.
RM: Actually doubly fortunate – you had a not-so-wonderful and very unhealthy recording relationship prior that you managed to escape from…
SS: Yeah, that’s very true. I was trying to make a record before this with someone who was dealing with a lot of his own, personal issues. I never want to be judgemental – I was telling myself to look past the issues and just get through the process – but it turned out to be so unhealthy that it became impossible.
I would show up at the studio and he wouldn’t be there… or sessions would be cancelled at the last minute… or he would disappear for weeks at a time…
He was a very talented guy but I was trying to record something with a deadline, for a label, and that just killed everything. It got to the stage where I had to say to myself "just quit."
RM: I'm glad you did because that false start and subsequent trip to Memphis led to the perfect musical partnership with Mike.
It’s fascinating how these serendipitous chain of events sometimes manifest themselves.
SS: It is; I absolutely agree with you. It makes me a firm believer in destiny because you certainly couldn’t plan these things!
RM: I could go out for a walk later and bump into somebody wearing the same T-shirt; that’s a passing coincidence. But in the greater scheme of things I firmly believe there are no coincidences.
Call it destiny, call it fate, theorise it how you like, but some things are meant to be – you might not be aware of the mechanics behind it but you do get a sense of it.
SS: Mike felt the same way; it was just the right time in his life and the right time in my life for something like that to happen. When things are meant to be you’re right, you do get a sense of that, because things are not as difficult any longer; things just flow and happen naturally.
RM: The other side to this is Mike was so excited to be working with you; something that was evident when FabricationsHQ chatted to him recently.
To hear someone like Mike, with all his decades of experience in the business, be this enthused about an artist, was fantastic – and quite the compliment to your talents.
SS: That’s lovely to hear; thank you. I have to also say however that Mike lost his wife, Natalie, just about a year before we got together to do this album and that had a lot to do with us being able to work together. Mike was just at that point where he was coming out of mourning and felt ready to take on something new and get back in to production work.
RM: It’s also quite poignant to note that Natalie played her part in one of the songs on the album, which we’ll talk about a little later.
There are a number of things that impress me about A Force of Nature, not the least of which is your lyric writing and wordplay ability. This is not a "oh my baby left me" blues based album; this is an album full of real life lyricism and weightier subjects that help give it such gravitas.
SS: Thank you so much for recognising that because that’s where the real hard work is.
I find writing the music very easy – melodies come very quickly for me – but the price I pay for that is that I really toil and struggle with the lyrics. It takes me a long time before I think a lyric is really done.
And I want to talk about things that are relevant and important to people’s lives; I try not to be judgemental and you never want to be preachy but I want to somehow convey the feeling that we are all spiritual beings having a human experience – we’re not here to judge each other, we are here to love each other and help each other.
So when I approach subjects like domestic violence or drug addiction – and I have a song about terrorism that’s going to be on the next record – that allows me to expand the dialogue and give a more balanced perspective. The conversation can be more honest.
RM: Terrorism is a weighty subject to take on at the best of times, but in the current climate?
I could give you arguments for that being everything from brave to dangerous to controversial…
SS: Yeah, but you know as well as I do, and like all these subjects, life is not lived in black and white.
There’s a truth in the middle which is every shade of grey; there’s no-one that’s all good or all evil.
I think what we need, especially nowadays, is to have more compassion for each other; the world is this big mess with fear driving everything and we just seem to be inciting more fear and hatred in people's hearts.
It’s not good.
RM: No it’s not. It’s interesting to hear your thoughts on fated paths, the belief that we are spiritual beings having a human experience and compassion because my wife Anne is a Buddhist and would echo your sentiments. I have the utmost time and respect for Buddhism; for me it’s not so much a religion as the art of understanding, human decency and compassion.
SS: I’ve been studying Buddhism for a long, long time and would agree with you there, too.
But I’ll tell you the strangest thing… I am a professional singer who is not comfortable chanting!
RM: [laughs] Seriously? I thought that would come with the territory, or come naturally, to you.
SS: No, it’s true, go figure – I am not a chanter! [laughs]
RM: Well you might not be comfortable with Buddhist chants but you certainly delivered on your slave chant interpretation of the Lead Belly classic Black Betty. That’s an astonishing, and powerful, cover.
SS: Thank you so much. That song was actually chosen for me to sing by the producers of the Lead Belly Fest when I was invited to perform at that event at Carnegie Hall in New York.
But I nearly had a heart attack when I was told I was to be part of the show – I was honestly thinking "what have I gotten myself in to!" because this song is so weighty and so powerful that I hadn’t managed to get through it at any of the rehearsals. I even managed to mess it up at the sound check!
By that point I was thinking "Great, I’m going to embarrass myself at something that is such an honour to be a part of and with such an important song."
But once I really got in to the lyric and understood what I thought Lead Belly was trying to say I became totally transparent and just allowed the song to pass through me; I became a vehicle for it.
It was only then that the stars aligned and I had a flawless performance.
But that song still scares me; there are times that I’ll look at our guitarist Innes before a show and say "I don’t think I’m up to Black Betty tonight" because it takes so much out of me.
Innes will smile at me and say "OK, that’s fine, don’t worry; if it’s too hard you don’t have to do it."
But that’s when I’ll say "damn!"[laughs] because now I have to do it because Innes knows I don’t want anything easy!
RM: I can totally understand that because I know how high a bar you set for yourself.
You’re probably your own biggest critic…
SS: Yep; I am! [laughs]
RM: Great video, great version – but it only conveys a facet of how powerful the song and your performance is live.
SS: You know I’m still learning with that song because I need to find a way to be the vehicle without having any residual effects as that song is moving through me; I need to find a way of being in that song without it becoming so overwhelming.
I don’t know if that’s ever going to be possible but I would like to have less emotional fallout from that song. I feel like there’s a corrosiveness eating away as it passes through me… I’m still trying to figure it out.
RM: I understand and sympathise but you may find that you have to give yourself to the song to that degree to make it the extraordinarily powerful piece it becomes. That might just be the Yin and Yang of it, Sari.
SS: Well I want it to be sustainable; you can’t let these things become so burdensome that they rob you of your energy and take control. There are certain songs that carry so much weight that you have to find that balance but maybe you’re right – maybe in this case that’s the burden of this song.
RM: It was interesting to hear you say earlier how you become a vehicle for the song because in my review of Force of Nature, I wrote of Black Betty that you are "channelling the ghosts and the pain of the slave and the whip…"
SS: Honestly I really am. I think we are all able to channel whatever this creative energy is that surrounds all of us and especially those of us who dedicate our lives to being creative – we perhaps spend more of our lives trying to get to that channelling access.
I even feel that with some of my lyrics, because when I read them back I think "I’m not smart enough to have written that; that did not come from me."
So many great artists I admire feel that it’s all coming from channelling, which is why so many of those same artists don’t have an ego invested in it; we’re just so grateful – and astonished – when we feel we are accessing a higher intelligence. Personally I’m just trying not to get in the way or mess it up! [laughs]
RM: Jon Anderson, best known as the voice and architect of progressive rock giants Yes for around thirty-five years, talks of being in "creation mode" when inspiration comes calling from "somewhere else" and believes himself to be simply the conduit.
Francis Dunnery, part of British hard pop progressives It Bites back in his "rock star" days, has become an ego-less, intimate House Concert performer who knows when it’s time for a new album because the songs "come from somewhere else, and then all at the same time."
SS: I completely agree with them. That’s why when people say to me "you’re never nervous when you have to go out and perform?" I say "no, I’m really not" because it’s not about me; it’s about something else that’s much bigger. It really is amazing.
I’m very aware of all the things I don’t know; the mysteries of life are the things that obsess my mind.
Ever since I was very young my grandmother, Bertha, was worried about me but now, as I joke, it’s obvious I just had the blues! [laughs]. They all thought I was a very depressive child but I was just very introspective!
So the things that we don’t know, that’s what’s really exciting to me.
RM: Joking aside about the young child with the blues, were you shaped as a youngster by a musical family?
SS: Well my grandmother actually wanted to be a singer but she was forbidden; her father forced her to be a bookkeeper. So she was always looking to her grandchildren to see if any of us would pursue her dream, but she passed away when I was ten. I do feel she is with me so often, though.
And then my dad, well, he just loved to blast anything out of the car radio while he was driving, although he especially liked Shirley Bassey! He would steer with his knee while conducting with two hands!
I just loved those drives with him.
RM: So I would surmise you were also singing at an early age?
SS: My mother says I was singing before I could walk! I do remember when I was seven years old I put on my first House Concert in my parents' living room in front of some of the neighbours.
You’ll appreciate how clever I thought this was – I took the couch, spun it around, stood on the seating and used the back as the front of the stage! [laughs].
And people paid! I thought it was because they wanted to but little did I know my parents’ were begging the neighbours or making them all kinds of promises – and apologies [laughs]
RM: I love the couch trick [laughter] but at a more serious level it points to a young girl with a confidence of performance that would become a woman with an incredibly flexible and powerful voice, shaped to some extent by your operatic training.
SS: I was very fortunate with that; I fell in to the hands of a Juilliard opera teacher who begged me to go in to opera, but I was already writing songs and opera was too structured for my free spirited nature [laughs].
The good thing about that training was it taught me vocal technique, which takes years and years to master. Actually I’m still learning every time I perform and I'm still pushing those boundaries, but that training, so early on, gave me a certain amount of technique that has since become muscle memory – when I perform now I don’t think about technique.
Every great musician will tell you that you have to master the technique but you’ve got to forget about it when you get on stage – you have to make it all about the performance.
RM: Which you do as well as any – you also work extremely hard live, giving of yourself vocally, physically and, as we have discussed with Black Betty, emotionally.
SS: Years ago a woman – a former singer – criticised me for working too hard.
She said "why don’t you sit down when you sing? Why don’t you save some of your energy?"
That’s when I asked her if she had been a singer but all she said was "I was, years ago, but you work too hard – you work too hard!" she just kept saying that over and over [laughs]
I thought about that whole "work too hard" thing but I don’t know how to work less; I just know how to try to be honest.
RM: I find her "why don’t you sit down" comment quite curious because while many singers can and do sing seated – the soft voiced crooners, the sitting on a stool light entertainers, for example – with disciplines such as rock, opera and blues you have to be standing.
You have to have that diaphragm and core muscle working to its fullest; you have to be rooted and project through that core…
SS: Yeah, I definitely use my full body and that’s one thing I’ve learned through my opera training – you do, as you just described, root yourself to the ground from the soles of your feet all the way up to the top of your head.
RM: Which is why you probably could have done opera should that have been your chosen path.
SS: I do sometimes think to myself "if I had just gone ahead and been an opera singer I could wear big, beautiful dresses and be as fat as I want to!" [laughter]
The problem is though that I just don’t have the discipline to sing other people’s material so precisely.
I’d be changing the melody and saying "you know what, this bit here is good, but I could make it a little better by doing this…" [laughs]
RM: "…and if I could just tweak it here, extend on that note but sing under this one…" [laughter]
SS: "...and those Italian lyrics? I’m going to have to write some new words in English and sing them in a Brooklyn accent" [laughter]. Brooklyn Opera Blues! [laughs].
RM: That wouldn't be so much off-Broadway as nowhere near Broadway [laughter].
On a more serious operatic note the opera training, along with your blues and rock based background, has given you your own voice and sound. If asked to vocally describe you I'd answer "operatic blues."
I don’t hear a blues singer; I hear a rock singer with rootsy, blues sensibilities and operatic tone.
SS: That’s a great compliment, thank you so much. I also think you just coined a new musical genre!
RM: Or the title of the next album [laughter]
SS: You know I’m still learning with that song because I need to find a way to be the vehicle without having any residual effects as that song is moving through me; I need to find a way of being in that song without it becoming so overwhelming.
I don’t know if that’s ever going to be possible but I would like to have less emotional fallout from that song. I feel like there’s a corrosiveness eating away as it passes through me… I’m still trying to figure it out.
RM: I understand and sympathise but you may find that you have to give yourself to the song to that degree to make it the extraordinarily powerful piece it becomes. That might just be the Yin and Yang of it, Sari.
SS: Well I want it to be sustainable; you can’t let these things become so burdensome that they rob you of your energy and take control. There are certain songs that carry so much weight that you have to find that balance but maybe you’re right – maybe in this case that’s the burden of this song.
RM: It was interesting to hear you say earlier how you become a vehicle for the song because in my review of Force of Nature, I wrote of Black Betty that you are "channelling the ghosts and the pain of the slave and the whip…"
SS: Honestly I really am. I think we are all able to channel whatever this creative energy is that surrounds all of us and especially those of us who dedicate our lives to being creative – we perhaps spend more of our lives trying to get to that channelling access.
I even feel that with some of my lyrics, because when I read them back I think "I’m not smart enough to have written that; that did not come from me."
So many great artists I admire feel that it’s all coming from channelling, which is why so many of those same artists don’t have an ego invested in it; we’re just so grateful – and astonished – when we feel we are accessing a higher intelligence. Personally I’m just trying not to get in the way or mess it up! [laughs]
RM: Jon Anderson, best known as the voice and architect of progressive rock giants Yes for around thirty-five years, talks of being in "creation mode" when inspiration comes calling from "somewhere else" and believes himself to be simply the conduit.
Francis Dunnery, part of British hard pop progressives It Bites back in his "rock star" days, has become an ego-less, intimate House Concert performer who knows when it’s time for a new album because the songs "come from somewhere else, and then all at the same time."
SS: I completely agree with them. That’s why when people say to me "you’re never nervous when you have to go out and perform?" I say "no, I’m really not" because it’s not about me; it’s about something else that’s much bigger. It really is amazing.
I’m very aware of all the things I don’t know; the mysteries of life are the things that obsess my mind.
Ever since I was very young my grandmother, Bertha, was worried about me but now, as I joke, it’s obvious I just had the blues! [laughs]. They all thought I was a very depressive child but I was just very introspective!
So the things that we don’t know, that’s what’s really exciting to me.
RM: Joking aside about the young child with the blues, were you shaped as a youngster by a musical family?
SS: Well my grandmother actually wanted to be a singer but she was forbidden; her father forced her to be a bookkeeper. So she was always looking to her grandchildren to see if any of us would pursue her dream, but she passed away when I was ten. I do feel she is with me so often, though.
And then my dad, well, he just loved to blast anything out of the car radio while he was driving, although he especially liked Shirley Bassey! He would steer with his knee while conducting with two hands!
I just loved those drives with him.
RM: So I would surmise you were also singing at an early age?
SS: My mother says I was singing before I could walk! I do remember when I was seven years old I put on my first House Concert in my parents' living room in front of some of the neighbours.
You’ll appreciate how clever I thought this was – I took the couch, spun it around, stood on the seating and used the back as the front of the stage! [laughs].
And people paid! I thought it was because they wanted to but little did I know my parents’ were begging the neighbours or making them all kinds of promises – and apologies [laughs]
RM: I love the couch trick [laughter] but at a more serious level it points to a young girl with a confidence of performance that would become a woman with an incredibly flexible and powerful voice, shaped to some extent by your operatic training.
SS: I was very fortunate with that; I fell in to the hands of a Juilliard opera teacher who begged me to go in to opera, but I was already writing songs and opera was too structured for my free spirited nature [laughs].
The good thing about that training was it taught me vocal technique, which takes years and years to master. Actually I’m still learning every time I perform and I'm still pushing those boundaries, but that training, so early on, gave me a certain amount of technique that has since become muscle memory – when I perform now I don’t think about technique.
Every great musician will tell you that you have to master the technique but you’ve got to forget about it when you get on stage – you have to make it all about the performance.
RM: Which you do as well as any – you also work extremely hard live, giving of yourself vocally, physically and, as we have discussed with Black Betty, emotionally.
SS: Years ago a woman – a former singer – criticised me for working too hard.
She said "why don’t you sit down when you sing? Why don’t you save some of your energy?"
That’s when I asked her if she had been a singer but all she said was "I was, years ago, but you work too hard – you work too hard!" she just kept saying that over and over [laughs]
I thought about that whole "work too hard" thing but I don’t know how to work less; I just know how to try to be honest.
RM: I find her "why don’t you sit down" comment quite curious because while many singers can and do sing seated – the soft voiced crooners, the sitting on a stool light entertainers, for example – with disciplines such as rock, opera and blues you have to be standing.
You have to have that diaphragm and core muscle working to its fullest; you have to be rooted and project through that core…
SS: Yeah, I definitely use my full body and that’s one thing I’ve learned through my opera training – you do, as you just described, root yourself to the ground from the soles of your feet all the way up to the top of your head.
RM: Which is why you probably could have done opera should that have been your chosen path.
SS: I do sometimes think to myself "if I had just gone ahead and been an opera singer I could wear big, beautiful dresses and be as fat as I want to!" [laughter]
The problem is though that I just don’t have the discipline to sing other people’s material so precisely.
I’d be changing the melody and saying "you know what, this bit here is good, but I could make it a little better by doing this…" [laughs]
RM: "…and if I could just tweak it here, extend on that note but sing under this one…" [laughter]
SS: "...and those Italian lyrics? I’m going to have to write some new words in English and sing them in a Brooklyn accent" [laughter]. Brooklyn Opera Blues! [laughs].
RM: That wouldn't be so much off-Broadway as nowhere near Broadway [laughter].
On a more serious operatic note the opera training, along with your blues and rock based background, has given you your own voice and sound. If asked to vocally describe you I'd answer "operatic blues."
I don’t hear a blues singer; I hear a rock singer with rootsy, blues sensibilities and operatic tone.
SS: That’s a great compliment, thank you so much. I also think you just coined a new musical genre!
RM: Or the title of the next album [laughter]
RM: Just to expand further on your own vocality; I know you cite many of the iconic, early greats as influences, such as Bessie Smith, Ella Fitzgerald and Etta James…
SS: Yes, that’s right…
RM: …but I don’t hear that; I hear how they have helped shape you, vocally, but you are uniquely Sari Schorr. Further, for me, you are part of a vocal thread that connects later female greats – Janis Joplin to Tina Turner to Elkie Brooks to Ann Wilson... and now to Sari Schorr.
SS: Wow. That’s… [pauses]… I don’t know what to say to that other than you have just made my day.
RM: I’m just calling it as I hear it; you also have a vocal gravitas that only a select number of singers have.
I would conjecture there was probably an earlier period where you could hear those female blues influences but you have become your own singer with your own voice.
SS: That comes from getting to a point in your life where you are comfortable in your own skin.
Because until you can embrace who you are and accept all the imperfections and all the quirks, which is part of the holistic picture of who you really are, you can’t find your true voice.
But that comes with a lifetime of experience; we really don’t know who we are when we are young.
In our twenties we are sort of figuring it all out and everything is new and exciting and we’re shaping ourselves more on our external influences.
But as we age and mature there is more of a rounding and a sense of who we are internally; we reference more from our experiences, digest that and become more honest about ourselves.
When you get to that point in your life you can be accepting and say "well, that’s me, for better or worse."
For singers, once you’ve figured all that out you can also figure out your own voice, but before that we’re emulating other artists and trying to be something else – and as soon as you try to be something you are not being yourself.
But as soon as you can step away from all of that, and just be committed to your own identity and accept it, with all of its nuances and imperfections, then you can start to become self-realised.
RM: That’s as eloquent an answer and as accurate a summation of "self" and individuality as I’ve heard.
It also directly leads to a song I was going to discuss later but have to bring in to the conversation now because as I was listening to you I was thinking of the line "I know now who I am" from Ordinary Life.
SS: Oh boy. I really appreciate that you picked up on that because that’s it exactly… wow! [laughs]
RM: Similarly, Ordinary Life could have been titled – or perhaps more correctly sub-titled – The Gratitude Song.
SS: Yes! That’s how I perceived that song. When I introduce Ordinary Life I talk to people about gratitude and how that is the most important lesson I’ve learned – how much we can overcome through gratitude.
Even from the people who hurt us – if we can find gratitude for those experiences then those same experiences will allow us to grow, whether we wanted to experience those things or not.
Every experience is an opportunity for tremendous growth and, usually, they are the things that bring our lives in to a direction that is for our benefit – we can help shape our experiences if we are more open to the course of events that are laid out and meant to be for us.
So it's my gratitude song but it’s also about the underlying battle between gratitude and that angst that we still have as human beings [laughs]
We believe in the spiritual life; we believe that good triumphs over evil; but we’re still humans dealing with a very human reality.
That pull between the idealistic spiritual world and the reality that we live in; that’s really what Ordinary Life is all about.
RM: It’s also, in more simple terms, just a beautiful song beautifully sung.
But knowing how you work and how meticulous you are about getting the right vocal for the right song, I’m guessing that wasn’t your first take?
SS: [laughs] Oh my goodness, no; that was the hardest song to record on the album!
The song that I thought would be the hardest was Stop! In the Name of Love – I just didn’t think I could bring anything of value to that song. In fact I didn’t want to do it!
But when you work with Mike Vernon you trust him because he has such great instincts; so I had nothing to lose on that one and it really worked.
Black Betty was another one; that was basically done in one take but the funny thing is I wasn’t feeling well that day – I had gotten food poisoning or something like that and was distracted from vomiting in the studio.
In fact I was so sick I was just doing everything I could not to throw up over the microphone! [laughs]
Ordinary Life though, that was a really difficult and challenging song to record.
First of all, when Jesús Lavilla came in with that piano intro – a spontaneous burst of musical genius that none of us were prepared for – we were all in tears; I was sobbing while trying to sing without completely losing it.
The first take was probably the best one to be honest with you but it was unusable because you can hear my sniffling all through the recording and no-one wants that! [laughs].
So I had to try and recapture that emotional intensity on later takes but Mike kept saying "I can hear you thinking!" He doesn’t let anything slide [laughs] so you go back to where you were and start again.
But trying to find that balance of being emotionally connected to the song while delivering a performance that people can live with, was hard. We eventually got it, but that was thanks to Mike’s patience [laughs]
RM: A patience that paid off in spades. I wasn’t being derogatory by implying it couldn’t have been your first vocal take. There are many "first take" singers out there but from the way you work, and the personal nature of that song, I felt there was no way that could have been the case.
SS: I don’t take it as an insult at all; it required a lot of work and sometimes the things you think are going to be really easy turn out to be the most challenging, especially as that song is so naked and so exposed.
It’s a fine line between over-singing and understatement and believe me I was one extreme or the other for many, many takes [laughs]
RM: That’s a great vocal point because while knowing what you can do is important, knowing what you shouldn’t do is equally important.
When it starts to become about the ego and not about the song – when a singer is over-stating, over-singing parts or going all Mariah Carey on the song’s ass [laughter] – I’m out the door or skipping the track.
SS: I learned my lesson there. By nature I’m very fearless, but if you put fearlessness and vocally inexperienced together you get a lot of disastrous singing [laughs].
When I first started out I was guilty of the Mariah Carey syndrome; it was all about "look what I can do! I have five octaves! And here they all are in the first line of the song!" Bam! [laughs].
RM: And now where the hell do you go?
SS: Exactly [laughs]. But I think a part of that is fear; that’s when the ego is taking control and you want everyone to love you right away. "Look, listen, I’m really good – ready? Here we go!" and you let it all out…
RM: ...all the way up, all the way down, throw in a trill and vibrato the crap out of that last note hold…
SS: …and tah dah! [laughter] But you learn. You learn about pacing, about control, how a song has a life and how you allow it to breathe with space.
Space is the most important thing that most new singers and musicians overlook; that’s the biggest problem.
RM: I’ve had conversations with many musicians about how the space is as important as how you fill a song. Steve Hunter, who producer Bob Ezrin calls "the greatest lyrical guitarist in America," preaches the mantra of the space between the notes being as important as the notes themselves.
SS: Absolutely. Space is the groove; how long you are holding on a note depends on how people perceive rhythm. You listen to some singers and musicians and they are just grooving – they are in the pocket, and that’s all about the space they create.
SS: Yes, that’s right…
RM: …but I don’t hear that; I hear how they have helped shape you, vocally, but you are uniquely Sari Schorr. Further, for me, you are part of a vocal thread that connects later female greats – Janis Joplin to Tina Turner to Elkie Brooks to Ann Wilson... and now to Sari Schorr.
SS: Wow. That’s… [pauses]… I don’t know what to say to that other than you have just made my day.
RM: I’m just calling it as I hear it; you also have a vocal gravitas that only a select number of singers have.
I would conjecture there was probably an earlier period where you could hear those female blues influences but you have become your own singer with your own voice.
SS: That comes from getting to a point in your life where you are comfortable in your own skin.
Because until you can embrace who you are and accept all the imperfections and all the quirks, which is part of the holistic picture of who you really are, you can’t find your true voice.
But that comes with a lifetime of experience; we really don’t know who we are when we are young.
In our twenties we are sort of figuring it all out and everything is new and exciting and we’re shaping ourselves more on our external influences.
But as we age and mature there is more of a rounding and a sense of who we are internally; we reference more from our experiences, digest that and become more honest about ourselves.
When you get to that point in your life you can be accepting and say "well, that’s me, for better or worse."
For singers, once you’ve figured all that out you can also figure out your own voice, but before that we’re emulating other artists and trying to be something else – and as soon as you try to be something you are not being yourself.
But as soon as you can step away from all of that, and just be committed to your own identity and accept it, with all of its nuances and imperfections, then you can start to become self-realised.
RM: That’s as eloquent an answer and as accurate a summation of "self" and individuality as I’ve heard.
It also directly leads to a song I was going to discuss later but have to bring in to the conversation now because as I was listening to you I was thinking of the line "I know now who I am" from Ordinary Life.
SS: Oh boy. I really appreciate that you picked up on that because that’s it exactly… wow! [laughs]
RM: Similarly, Ordinary Life could have been titled – or perhaps more correctly sub-titled – The Gratitude Song.
SS: Yes! That’s how I perceived that song. When I introduce Ordinary Life I talk to people about gratitude and how that is the most important lesson I’ve learned – how much we can overcome through gratitude.
Even from the people who hurt us – if we can find gratitude for those experiences then those same experiences will allow us to grow, whether we wanted to experience those things or not.
Every experience is an opportunity for tremendous growth and, usually, they are the things that bring our lives in to a direction that is for our benefit – we can help shape our experiences if we are more open to the course of events that are laid out and meant to be for us.
So it's my gratitude song but it’s also about the underlying battle between gratitude and that angst that we still have as human beings [laughs]
We believe in the spiritual life; we believe that good triumphs over evil; but we’re still humans dealing with a very human reality.
That pull between the idealistic spiritual world and the reality that we live in; that’s really what Ordinary Life is all about.
RM: It’s also, in more simple terms, just a beautiful song beautifully sung.
But knowing how you work and how meticulous you are about getting the right vocal for the right song, I’m guessing that wasn’t your first take?
SS: [laughs] Oh my goodness, no; that was the hardest song to record on the album!
The song that I thought would be the hardest was Stop! In the Name of Love – I just didn’t think I could bring anything of value to that song. In fact I didn’t want to do it!
But when you work with Mike Vernon you trust him because he has such great instincts; so I had nothing to lose on that one and it really worked.
Black Betty was another one; that was basically done in one take but the funny thing is I wasn’t feeling well that day – I had gotten food poisoning or something like that and was distracted from vomiting in the studio.
In fact I was so sick I was just doing everything I could not to throw up over the microphone! [laughs]
Ordinary Life though, that was a really difficult and challenging song to record.
First of all, when Jesús Lavilla came in with that piano intro – a spontaneous burst of musical genius that none of us were prepared for – we were all in tears; I was sobbing while trying to sing without completely losing it.
The first take was probably the best one to be honest with you but it was unusable because you can hear my sniffling all through the recording and no-one wants that! [laughs].
So I had to try and recapture that emotional intensity on later takes but Mike kept saying "I can hear you thinking!" He doesn’t let anything slide [laughs] so you go back to where you were and start again.
But trying to find that balance of being emotionally connected to the song while delivering a performance that people can live with, was hard. We eventually got it, but that was thanks to Mike’s patience [laughs]
RM: A patience that paid off in spades. I wasn’t being derogatory by implying it couldn’t have been your first vocal take. There are many "first take" singers out there but from the way you work, and the personal nature of that song, I felt there was no way that could have been the case.
SS: I don’t take it as an insult at all; it required a lot of work and sometimes the things you think are going to be really easy turn out to be the most challenging, especially as that song is so naked and so exposed.
It’s a fine line between over-singing and understatement and believe me I was one extreme or the other for many, many takes [laughs]
RM: That’s a great vocal point because while knowing what you can do is important, knowing what you shouldn’t do is equally important.
When it starts to become about the ego and not about the song – when a singer is over-stating, over-singing parts or going all Mariah Carey on the song’s ass [laughter] – I’m out the door or skipping the track.
SS: I learned my lesson there. By nature I’m very fearless, but if you put fearlessness and vocally inexperienced together you get a lot of disastrous singing [laughs].
When I first started out I was guilty of the Mariah Carey syndrome; it was all about "look what I can do! I have five octaves! And here they all are in the first line of the song!" Bam! [laughs].
RM: And now where the hell do you go?
SS: Exactly [laughs]. But I think a part of that is fear; that’s when the ego is taking control and you want everyone to love you right away. "Look, listen, I’m really good – ready? Here we go!" and you let it all out…
RM: ...all the way up, all the way down, throw in a trill and vibrato the crap out of that last note hold…
SS: …and tah dah! [laughter] But you learn. You learn about pacing, about control, how a song has a life and how you allow it to breathe with space.
Space is the most important thing that most new singers and musicians overlook; that’s the biggest problem.
RM: I’ve had conversations with many musicians about how the space is as important as how you fill a song. Steve Hunter, who producer Bob Ezrin calls "the greatest lyrical guitarist in America," preaches the mantra of the space between the notes being as important as the notes themselves.
SS: Absolutely. Space is the groove; how long you are holding on a note depends on how people perceive rhythm. You listen to some singers and musicians and they are just grooving – they are in the pocket, and that’s all about the space they create.
RM: I’d like to jump back to A Force of Nature. We’ve spoken about Black Betty and Ordinary Life but this is an album peppered with outstanding songs and outstanding performances.
I’d like to discuss a couple more starting with Letting Go, a lovely number that you dedicated to Natalie Vernon, the late wife of Mike Vernon.
You have said before that this particular song came almost self-formed during a writing session?
SS: Yeah, that’s true but if I’m really honest I think Natalie wrote it.
As I said earlier I normally take a very long time to write the lyrics but that song was fully formed in about five minutes; that’s unprecedented for me.
During the writing session with Mike and his guitarist Quique Bonal I kept looking at a photo of Natalie and could just see that this was a very special lady; that’s when that song started to come to me.
I was very nervous at those sessions too – here I was writing in the presence of Mike Vernon with part of me thinking it was also a little bit of a test.
Mike had invited me to his villa in Spain to do some songwriting with him and Quique and told me "we’re writing through Saturday afternoon and Sunday; on Monday I’ve booked us a studio session in Seville."
I'm thinking [shouts] "No!" because you talk about pressure, right? [laughs].
But three of the songs we wrote over that period ended up on the album – Oklahoma, Cat and Mouse and Letting Go.
In fact I finished the lyrics for Cat and Mouse as we were driving to Seville; as we pulled in to the studio I wrote out the very last line!
RM: Fair to say you passed the test and fair to say that, again, you clearly feel you were channelling in the creation of Letting Go…
SS: Very clearly, yes.
RM: Letting Go puts you in extremely good "fully formed in minutes" company.
One of the most famous and beautiful examples is Annie’s Song by the late John Denver; he used to tell how the song came to him in ten minutes while in a ski-lift after a particularly exhilarating ski run. Extraordinary.
SS: It is. There has to be so much more than what we can perceive with our limited senses, or limited awareness.
RM: There’s a near century old theory that we only use ten percent of our brains.
That’s scientifically and matter of factly bullshit but you and I probably know a lot of people who do only use ten percent of their brains; a lot of them are in the music industry for a start [laughter]
But yes, I agree, we truly are still limited in so many ways. We’re an interesting species all the same.
SS: Yeah; but one that’s really only at the beginning of our evolution! [laughs]
RM: Can't argue with that. Another song I wanted to touch on is Kiss Me.
That's a fantastic, sensual lyric meets sixties styled psychedelic blues rock number but I also love the reference to your three biggest fans by way of the line "A Pit bulls’ loving eyes that I just can’t wrest."
SS: My little Pit bulls! [laughs]. I have to show you a picture – from left to right this is Elenora, the princess, Sophie, who is the comedian and Chianti, the scholar.
They are just such loving dogs; every time I look at them they’re posing in impossibly cute positions or cuddling up to each other!
RM: My wife runs a Dog Lodging business so we have dogs around us for large parts of the year, but one of the few breeds we’ve never lodged is the Pit bull.
Very few people have them where we are because of their much maligned reputation, so it's lovely to talk to someone who has Pit bulls and is so devoted to the breed.
SS: I am. I’m completely devoted to this breed and I will never have any other dog now other than a Pit bull. They are actually called Nanny dogs because they are so good with kids but the problems start when they are not handled the way they should be; they are so loving and loyal that you can manipulate them to do bad things – bad people can make them bad dogs. But they are also very intelligent with a great sense of humour.
What you do is great; we never put our dogs in a kennel either. We pay someone to come over to our apartment to look after the girls, watch our TV and drink our wine! [laughs]
RM: When I spoke to your New York blues buddy Popa Chubby a couple of years ago we ended up doing about fifteen non-interview minutes on his own Pit bull, his love for the breed and raising awareness.
Two grown men trying to do a formal music interview... [laughter]
I’d like to discuss a couple more starting with Letting Go, a lovely number that you dedicated to Natalie Vernon, the late wife of Mike Vernon.
You have said before that this particular song came almost self-formed during a writing session?
SS: Yeah, that’s true but if I’m really honest I think Natalie wrote it.
As I said earlier I normally take a very long time to write the lyrics but that song was fully formed in about five minutes; that’s unprecedented for me.
During the writing session with Mike and his guitarist Quique Bonal I kept looking at a photo of Natalie and could just see that this was a very special lady; that’s when that song started to come to me.
I was very nervous at those sessions too – here I was writing in the presence of Mike Vernon with part of me thinking it was also a little bit of a test.
Mike had invited me to his villa in Spain to do some songwriting with him and Quique and told me "we’re writing through Saturday afternoon and Sunday; on Monday I’ve booked us a studio session in Seville."
I'm thinking [shouts] "No!" because you talk about pressure, right? [laughs].
But three of the songs we wrote over that period ended up on the album – Oklahoma, Cat and Mouse and Letting Go.
In fact I finished the lyrics for Cat and Mouse as we were driving to Seville; as we pulled in to the studio I wrote out the very last line!
RM: Fair to say you passed the test and fair to say that, again, you clearly feel you were channelling in the creation of Letting Go…
SS: Very clearly, yes.
RM: Letting Go puts you in extremely good "fully formed in minutes" company.
One of the most famous and beautiful examples is Annie’s Song by the late John Denver; he used to tell how the song came to him in ten minutes while in a ski-lift after a particularly exhilarating ski run. Extraordinary.
SS: It is. There has to be so much more than what we can perceive with our limited senses, or limited awareness.
RM: There’s a near century old theory that we only use ten percent of our brains.
That’s scientifically and matter of factly bullshit but you and I probably know a lot of people who do only use ten percent of their brains; a lot of them are in the music industry for a start [laughter]
But yes, I agree, we truly are still limited in so many ways. We’re an interesting species all the same.
SS: Yeah; but one that’s really only at the beginning of our evolution! [laughs]
RM: Can't argue with that. Another song I wanted to touch on is Kiss Me.
That's a fantastic, sensual lyric meets sixties styled psychedelic blues rock number but I also love the reference to your three biggest fans by way of the line "A Pit bulls’ loving eyes that I just can’t wrest."
SS: My little Pit bulls! [laughs]. I have to show you a picture – from left to right this is Elenora, the princess, Sophie, who is the comedian and Chianti, the scholar.
They are just such loving dogs; every time I look at them they’re posing in impossibly cute positions or cuddling up to each other!
RM: My wife runs a Dog Lodging business so we have dogs around us for large parts of the year, but one of the few breeds we’ve never lodged is the Pit bull.
Very few people have them where we are because of their much maligned reputation, so it's lovely to talk to someone who has Pit bulls and is so devoted to the breed.
SS: I am. I’m completely devoted to this breed and I will never have any other dog now other than a Pit bull. They are actually called Nanny dogs because they are so good with kids but the problems start when they are not handled the way they should be; they are so loving and loyal that you can manipulate them to do bad things – bad people can make them bad dogs. But they are also very intelligent with a great sense of humour.
What you do is great; we never put our dogs in a kennel either. We pay someone to come over to our apartment to look after the girls, watch our TV and drink our wine! [laughs]
RM: When I spoke to your New York blues buddy Popa Chubby a couple of years ago we ended up doing about fifteen non-interview minutes on his own Pit bull, his love for the breed and raising awareness.
Two grown men trying to do a formal music interview... [laughter]
RM: We’ve mentioned Mike Vernon, who did such a great job of producing A Force of Nature, but we also have Innes Sibun who played on the majority of the songs.
Innes has since come on board as part of The Engine Room and seems to be your perfect live performance partner; it's just such a great voice and guitar dovetailing.
SS: Well said, because he absolutely is. Innes created the biggest problem for us because he gave us such a great sounding record that Mike and I were really worried about how we were going to replicate that live.
In fact Mike said "look, this is going to be a problem because Innes is a one-off; there really is no-one else quite like Innes."
We both knew how important the touring was going to be and we were just starting the "well, what are we gonna do now?" conversation when Innes walked in to the studio and said "listen, I’ve been thinking; I would really love to be your guitar player on this project."
Mike and I were astonished. Innes’s words were still hanging in the air when we turned to each other, looked back at Innes, ran over to him, threw our hands around him and said "Yes! Done!" [laughs]
That’s when I knew that the band was going to fall in to place; as soon as we had Innes I knew we were set.
RM: Indeed, because with the addition of Kevin O’Rourke, Kevin Jefferies and Anders Olinder you have not just a great supporting cast but a fantastic little five-piece in its own right…
SS: Innes is driving The Engine Room but he’s got the support of those three fabulous musicians.
Kevin O’Rourke is our drummer and he has great history with Innes; they have worked together for many years and have a great rapport.
Kevin Jefferies is on bass and I remember the first time we brought the two Kevin’s together in rehearsal – we made it very clear to everyone that even although they were two great musicians there was no guarantee they were going to click. But they did, immediately! They just hear the music the same way.
And then we have Anders Olinder on keyboards who is sprinkling all kinds of magic fairy dust on top of the songs we play with his jazz infused stylings.
Anders has incredible ears; he just hears everything and knows exactly where to fill the holes or work around what Innes is creating – Innes is an explosive guitar player so without someone on keyboards who has such tremendous ears it could get a little overwhelming.
So, yeah, it’s a fabulous combination. Actually it’s the perfect combination of musicians – it’s the ideal band!
RM: Couldn’t agree more about what Anders brings to this band; he just knows what to do and when to do it. He makes it about the song, in other words.
SS: Exactly. He’s a very unselfish musician; he really is fully invested in creating the best piano or keyboard part to complement the song and complement the rest of the band – and you really have to have no ego to do that.
RM: That’s another good point because it sounds, and looks, to me as if this is a band that hangs any egos there may be up on the dressing room door before walking on to the stage.
SS: We really do and it’s interesting you say that because I was having a conversation with my sister-in-law just a few nights ago about her son, who is a highly talented squash player – he’s actually rated one of the top young players in the country.
But the problem is as soon as he starts to think about himself – can I do this or not – he doesn’t play well.
I was saying to my sister-in-law "you know it’s the same with music and musicians; as soon as you start to bring your ego in to it and think about what you are doing as opposed to what are you giving, it’s over!”
It’s the difference between giving and getting – when you go out on stage you have to be committed to the principle that you are there to give, that the band members are each giving to the other and that the entirety is giving to the audience.
But as soon as you start thinking "OK, I’m on the stage, what am I going to get from the audience?" then it’s about you. From that point on the only thing that can happen is that you interfere with the process.
My sister-in-law was looking at ways to boost her son’s confidence but I was telling her you need to take the confidence out of it; it’s not about that. He should just honour the fact that he’s got a gift to show his love and appreciation for the sport, just like we show our love and appreciation for the music.
You just put yourself in that giving role and after that, everything is easy.
RM: The best bands – in terms of unity and quality of performance – thrive with that mentality and approach. Wayne Proctor, King King’s outstanding groove drummer, is a prime example of a musician who makes it all about the song, to the degree that he is in the song and in the moment.
SS: Yes, and you see it with the best actors too; they lose themselves in the role and become the role itself.
It’s the same thing with musicians – you have to become the music and you have to become the vehicle for the song.
RM: I want to give honourable mention to a song that isn’t on A Force of Nature nor is it even one of yours.
Your fellow New Yorker Dave Fields has a great track called Ain’t No Crime on his 2008 album All Wound Up. You would later record a version of Ain’t No Crime with Dave; you really get to let go in the second half of that song.
SS: I remember when we did that demo. It was a blazing hot day and we recorded it at Dave’s studio; he has an apartment in Chinatown.
We also co-wrote Kiss Me together; the funny thing about that is I actually finished the lyrics to the song’s bridge as I was walking over the Brooklyn Bridge, on my way back home!
I called Dave from the bridge to say "I’ve got it! I’ve got the lyric! [sings] 'A fortuneteller cried out...'" [laughs]
Every time we work together I always come away with something I think is great but this version of Ain’t No Crime is really just a songwriting demo; and it was never mixed so the sound quality isn’t great.
RM: No, it isn't, and when Dave shouts "Turn it up!" at the start the listener will probably need to do just that.
But the fact it’s such a great version, as an unmixed rough demo, speaks other type of volumes…
Innes has since come on board as part of The Engine Room and seems to be your perfect live performance partner; it's just such a great voice and guitar dovetailing.
SS: Well said, because he absolutely is. Innes created the biggest problem for us because he gave us such a great sounding record that Mike and I were really worried about how we were going to replicate that live.
In fact Mike said "look, this is going to be a problem because Innes is a one-off; there really is no-one else quite like Innes."
We both knew how important the touring was going to be and we were just starting the "well, what are we gonna do now?" conversation when Innes walked in to the studio and said "listen, I’ve been thinking; I would really love to be your guitar player on this project."
Mike and I were astonished. Innes’s words were still hanging in the air when we turned to each other, looked back at Innes, ran over to him, threw our hands around him and said "Yes! Done!" [laughs]
That’s when I knew that the band was going to fall in to place; as soon as we had Innes I knew we were set.
RM: Indeed, because with the addition of Kevin O’Rourke, Kevin Jefferies and Anders Olinder you have not just a great supporting cast but a fantastic little five-piece in its own right…
SS: Innes is driving The Engine Room but he’s got the support of those three fabulous musicians.
Kevin O’Rourke is our drummer and he has great history with Innes; they have worked together for many years and have a great rapport.
Kevin Jefferies is on bass and I remember the first time we brought the two Kevin’s together in rehearsal – we made it very clear to everyone that even although they were two great musicians there was no guarantee they were going to click. But they did, immediately! They just hear the music the same way.
And then we have Anders Olinder on keyboards who is sprinkling all kinds of magic fairy dust on top of the songs we play with his jazz infused stylings.
Anders has incredible ears; he just hears everything and knows exactly where to fill the holes or work around what Innes is creating – Innes is an explosive guitar player so without someone on keyboards who has such tremendous ears it could get a little overwhelming.
So, yeah, it’s a fabulous combination. Actually it’s the perfect combination of musicians – it’s the ideal band!
RM: Couldn’t agree more about what Anders brings to this band; he just knows what to do and when to do it. He makes it about the song, in other words.
SS: Exactly. He’s a very unselfish musician; he really is fully invested in creating the best piano or keyboard part to complement the song and complement the rest of the band – and you really have to have no ego to do that.
RM: That’s another good point because it sounds, and looks, to me as if this is a band that hangs any egos there may be up on the dressing room door before walking on to the stage.
SS: We really do and it’s interesting you say that because I was having a conversation with my sister-in-law just a few nights ago about her son, who is a highly talented squash player – he’s actually rated one of the top young players in the country.
But the problem is as soon as he starts to think about himself – can I do this or not – he doesn’t play well.
I was saying to my sister-in-law "you know it’s the same with music and musicians; as soon as you start to bring your ego in to it and think about what you are doing as opposed to what are you giving, it’s over!”
It’s the difference between giving and getting – when you go out on stage you have to be committed to the principle that you are there to give, that the band members are each giving to the other and that the entirety is giving to the audience.
But as soon as you start thinking "OK, I’m on the stage, what am I going to get from the audience?" then it’s about you. From that point on the only thing that can happen is that you interfere with the process.
My sister-in-law was looking at ways to boost her son’s confidence but I was telling her you need to take the confidence out of it; it’s not about that. He should just honour the fact that he’s got a gift to show his love and appreciation for the sport, just like we show our love and appreciation for the music.
You just put yourself in that giving role and after that, everything is easy.
RM: The best bands – in terms of unity and quality of performance – thrive with that mentality and approach. Wayne Proctor, King King’s outstanding groove drummer, is a prime example of a musician who makes it all about the song, to the degree that he is in the song and in the moment.
SS: Yes, and you see it with the best actors too; they lose themselves in the role and become the role itself.
It’s the same thing with musicians – you have to become the music and you have to become the vehicle for the song.
RM: I want to give honourable mention to a song that isn’t on A Force of Nature nor is it even one of yours.
Your fellow New Yorker Dave Fields has a great track called Ain’t No Crime on his 2008 album All Wound Up. You would later record a version of Ain’t No Crime with Dave; you really get to let go in the second half of that song.
SS: I remember when we did that demo. It was a blazing hot day and we recorded it at Dave’s studio; he has an apartment in Chinatown.
We also co-wrote Kiss Me together; the funny thing about that is I actually finished the lyrics to the song’s bridge as I was walking over the Brooklyn Bridge, on my way back home!
I called Dave from the bridge to say "I’ve got it! I’ve got the lyric! [sings] 'A fortuneteller cried out...'" [laughs]
Every time we work together I always come away with something I think is great but this version of Ain’t No Crime is really just a songwriting demo; and it was never mixed so the sound quality isn’t great.
RM: No, it isn't, and when Dave shouts "Turn it up!" at the start the listener will probably need to do just that.
But the fact it’s such a great version, as an unmixed rough demo, speaks other type of volumes…
SS: Dave is such a talented guitarist. He's also a great piano player – actually he's a multi-instrumentalist –and songwriter. He’s a great producer too.
RM: He’s had some success in various parts of Europe but is so far under the radar in the UK as to be virtually unknown. That’s disappointing because his funky, melodic rhythm and blues stylings could, and would, do well here.
SS: Well maybe I can help with that if I’m lucky enough to be the musician where people want to know what I think; I’d love to do what I could on that.
RM: The perfect scenario would be to have Dave Fields as special guest support on an Engine Room tour…
SS: I would love to do that, I really would. We’ve worked together many times and we always enjoy the hell out of it. He’s one of my closest friends.
RM: Well, that can be a future consideration; meanwhile we have the autumn UK dates to help promote
A Force of Nature along with a few European appearances. No Scottish dates, though.
SS: I know, but we did well at the Edinburgh Jazz and Blues Festival back in June so I think we’ll be returning. But I want to get back before then because, as you know, I feel a real connection with Scotland.
RM: Oh I’m very much aware you are fond of the Auld Country [laughs].
SS: I absolutely love it. When people ask "of all the places you’ve been, or played, where would you like to live?" I say "Scotland!" I’ve lived in Paris and I live in New York but there’s something about Scotland.
After we played the Jazz and Blues Festival I took a couple of days off and headed over to the north west; I visited the Isle of Skye before going all the way up to the north of the mainland.
And I have to show you this! [presents right hand to show Celtic knot ring]; I got this in Scotland!
RM: Nice. You visited some lovely parts of the country but next time you have to visit the Isle of Arran and its Buddhist Retreat on The Holy Isle. My wife goes over there three or four times a year.
It’s a complete switch off, has an incredible energy and calmness about it and Anne could even help you with the chanting [laughs]
SS: I would absolutely love that! We’re going to have to make that happen!
RM: Oh I think it’s inevitable at some point because it’s almost certainly another fated path…
SS: Yes! It probably is! [laughs]
RM: That’s another future consideration though. Right now here’s to A Force of Nature having the success it and your talents deserve, balanced with that Ordinary Life you so cherish.
SS: Thank you so much Ross and thank you for all your support; it makes all the hard work worthwhile.
And this has been so cool – cheers!
Ross Muir
Muirsical Conversation with Sari Schorr
August 2016
RM: He’s had some success in various parts of Europe but is so far under the radar in the UK as to be virtually unknown. That’s disappointing because his funky, melodic rhythm and blues stylings could, and would, do well here.
SS: Well maybe I can help with that if I’m lucky enough to be the musician where people want to know what I think; I’d love to do what I could on that.
RM: The perfect scenario would be to have Dave Fields as special guest support on an Engine Room tour…
SS: I would love to do that, I really would. We’ve worked together many times and we always enjoy the hell out of it. He’s one of my closest friends.
RM: Well, that can be a future consideration; meanwhile we have the autumn UK dates to help promote
A Force of Nature along with a few European appearances. No Scottish dates, though.
SS: I know, but we did well at the Edinburgh Jazz and Blues Festival back in June so I think we’ll be returning. But I want to get back before then because, as you know, I feel a real connection with Scotland.
RM: Oh I’m very much aware you are fond of the Auld Country [laughs].
SS: I absolutely love it. When people ask "of all the places you’ve been, or played, where would you like to live?" I say "Scotland!" I’ve lived in Paris and I live in New York but there’s something about Scotland.
After we played the Jazz and Blues Festival I took a couple of days off and headed over to the north west; I visited the Isle of Skye before going all the way up to the north of the mainland.
And I have to show you this! [presents right hand to show Celtic knot ring]; I got this in Scotland!
RM: Nice. You visited some lovely parts of the country but next time you have to visit the Isle of Arran and its Buddhist Retreat on The Holy Isle. My wife goes over there three or four times a year.
It’s a complete switch off, has an incredible energy and calmness about it and Anne could even help you with the chanting [laughs]
SS: I would absolutely love that! We’re going to have to make that happen!
RM: Oh I think it’s inevitable at some point because it’s almost certainly another fated path…
SS: Yes! It probably is! [laughs]
RM: That’s another future consideration though. Right now here’s to A Force of Nature having the success it and your talents deserve, balanced with that Ordinary Life you so cherish.
SS: Thank you so much Ross and thank you for all your support; it makes all the hard work worthwhile.
And this has been so cool – cheers!
Ross Muir
Muirsical Conversation with Sari Schorr
August 2016
Click here for FabricationsHQ’s conversation with Sari Schorr (Part Two - March 2017)
Official website: http://www.sarischorr.com
Sari Schorr on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/SariSchorrMusic/?fref=ts
Photo Credits:
Aigars Lapsa (top image)
John Bull (black & white and colour live shots)
Sari Schorr personal collection (Sari & dogs)
Audio tracks presented with the permission of the artist.
Official website: http://www.sarischorr.com
Sari Schorr on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/SariSchorrMusic/?fref=ts
Photo Credits:
Aigars Lapsa (top image)
John Bull (black & white and colour live shots)
Sari Schorr personal collection (Sari & dogs)
Audio tracks presented with the permission of the artist.