Creating the groove...
Muirsical Conversation with Ben Poole & Wayne Proctor
Muirsical Conversation with Ben Poole & Wayne Proctor
In 2018 Ben Poole, in the company of King King drummer Wayne Proctor (who co-wrote, played on and produced the album) recorded and released his strongest work to date, Anytime You Need Me.
The multi-styled blues rock singer-guitarist then undertook his biggest tour so far, covering the length and breadth of the UK and much of Europe.
The success of Anytime You Need Me was in no small part down to the tight-knit writing team of Ben Poole, Wayne Proctor and Proctor's House Of Tone production and mixing colleague, Steve Wright.
The written and recorded results were an extremely well received and critically favoured release, matched by the equally well received 2018 tour.
FabricationsHQ caught up with Ben Poole and Wayne Proctor to talk "the making of" Anytime You Need Me before the former embarked on the 2019 leg of his Anytime You Need Me UK dates and the latter joined his King King band mates for their Ten Year Anniversary tour of the UK (a concurrent double gig win-win for any and every British blues rock fan).
The multi-styled blues rock singer-guitarist then undertook his biggest tour so far, covering the length and breadth of the UK and much of Europe.
The success of Anytime You Need Me was in no small part down to the tight-knit writing team of Ben Poole, Wayne Proctor and Proctor's House Of Tone production and mixing colleague, Steve Wright.
The written and recorded results were an extremely well received and critically favoured release, matched by the equally well received 2018 tour.
FabricationsHQ caught up with Ben Poole and Wayne Proctor to talk "the making of" Anytime You Need Me before the former embarked on the 2019 leg of his Anytime You Need Me UK dates and the latter joined his King King band mates for their Ten Year Anniversary tour of the UK (a concurrent double gig win-win for any and every British blues rock fan).
Ross Muir: If I could start by jumping back to the end of 2018 what was a successful and lengthy first leg of Anytime You Need Me dates…
Ben Poole: That tour was a lot of fun but it was also the longest tour I’d ever done!
Last year I was away from home from August; we played sixty shows in nine countries across Europe.
RM: That’s certainly covering the ground but it also proves you have an audience for what you and the British blues rock boys and girls do, in Europe. In the UK it’s a smaller blues pool for so many to try and swim in…
BP: Yeah it can be tough but it’s getting better to be fair; we’ve done some really good shows in the UK and we had a number of sold out shows on that 2018 tour.
I think taking the first half of 2018 off made a real difference too; that helped to build the buzz back up. Stepping away from the scene for a bit definitely helped as did having a new album of course, and new songs to play – that helped with people wanting to see me play live again and not just being out their constantly.
I also wanted to come back bigger, and stronger, with something better than I had ever done before – and that’s the new album.
RM: I rated your previous album Time Has Come highly but this is a major step up.
Where the previous album was something of a musical smorgasbord Anytime You Need Me is far more structured and cohesive. If Time Has Come was the album that helped display all the facets of Ben Poole, this is more the album that helps define Ben Poole.
BP: Yes, absolutely. I think some people actually saw Time Has Come as a negative thing because it had such a broad spectrum of songwriting styles – from outside writers to different genres.
Personally, I don’t look back on that album negatively; in fact I think that’s one of the positives of Time Has Come, it shows off my versatility as an artist – everything from the pop of You’ve Changed to my rockier side with Lying to Me and pretty much everything in between.
Time Has Come showcased all those different styles, and the breadth of my influences.
Wayne Proctor: Time Has Come was a mature record; it definitely showed Ben as a deeper artist but we just couldn’t quite get what Ben’s identity was on that album or who he wanted to be.
BP: Yes, and I think that’s why it went over some peoples’ heads – "well, what is it exactly?" or "just who is Ben Poole on this record?" [laughs]
WP: And interestingly, from a live point of view, there’s only three songs from that album in the current set. The Question Why is one example, that’s a song that instantly suited, from vocal to lyric to songwriting style to storytelling; that worked really well.
But some of the others just didn’t lend themselves to be playing live; they just weren’t bringing the audiences in for whatever reason.
Now, they were all great writers who wrote those songs, but if they had been writing in particular for Ben, they would have probably come up with something a little bit different.
So great songwriters and good songs but, as regards continuing on from Live at The Albert Hall, which was more the guitar-slinger thing and more epic in scope, making an album like Time Has Come probably didn’t make sense to some people.
RM: With that in mind, did you know where you wanted to go, musically, when it came time to record the follow up to Time Has Come?
WP: Definitely. We said as soon as we had finished Time Has Come we knew where we wanted to go and what we were going to do with the next one.
RM: The songwriting team consisted of the pair of you and Wayne’s House of Tone colleague Steve Wright.
The studio band was your good selves, bassist Beau Barnard and keyboardist Ross Stanley; you also had House of Tone recording engineer Andy Banfield. That small team format was intentional?
BP: Yes, very much. After Wayne and I had that initial conversation about making another album we said "yes, let’s just do it." We're not ones to hang around waiting once we’ve made our minds up!
Having that small team turned out to be the best thing that could have ever happened because we ended up writing and making the album we wanted to write and make, without any outside influences or involvement. We took a chance though because the label didn’t hear it until it was done; we waited until it was complete, and mastered, and presented it to them.
WP: We also sent it to Peter Noble of Noble PR who does Ben’s PR and promotion; Peter phoned me up at eight o’clock one morning, about half an hour after he’d downloaded it from the link I sent him.
He had only played through the first three or four songs – I could hear it playing in the background – and Peter was already saying "this sounds amazing!"
BP: He was on the phone to me at one point, too, still listening to the album, and telling me the track playing was great. Then, as the next one played he’d say "wait… yeah, this one too!" [laughs]
So Peter’s already pumped and he hasn’t heard it all the way through yet!
WP: He was still playing it when he messaged Alan Robinson of Manhaton Records and asking Alan if he had played it yet! [laughs].
Alan and Peter loved it, Manhaton Records released it, it’s done what it’s done and got all those great reviews. We’re very happy about that.
RM: That has to be extremely gratifying and quite the compliment when both label and PR are so high on it having not heard anything from it beforehand.
BP: It really was; and that’s true; hardly anyone had heard it until it was completely finished.
Ben Poole: That tour was a lot of fun but it was also the longest tour I’d ever done!
Last year I was away from home from August; we played sixty shows in nine countries across Europe.
RM: That’s certainly covering the ground but it also proves you have an audience for what you and the British blues rock boys and girls do, in Europe. In the UK it’s a smaller blues pool for so many to try and swim in…
BP: Yeah it can be tough but it’s getting better to be fair; we’ve done some really good shows in the UK and we had a number of sold out shows on that 2018 tour.
I think taking the first half of 2018 off made a real difference too; that helped to build the buzz back up. Stepping away from the scene for a bit definitely helped as did having a new album of course, and new songs to play – that helped with people wanting to see me play live again and not just being out their constantly.
I also wanted to come back bigger, and stronger, with something better than I had ever done before – and that’s the new album.
RM: I rated your previous album Time Has Come highly but this is a major step up.
Where the previous album was something of a musical smorgasbord Anytime You Need Me is far more structured and cohesive. If Time Has Come was the album that helped display all the facets of Ben Poole, this is more the album that helps define Ben Poole.
BP: Yes, absolutely. I think some people actually saw Time Has Come as a negative thing because it had such a broad spectrum of songwriting styles – from outside writers to different genres.
Personally, I don’t look back on that album negatively; in fact I think that’s one of the positives of Time Has Come, it shows off my versatility as an artist – everything from the pop of You’ve Changed to my rockier side with Lying to Me and pretty much everything in between.
Time Has Come showcased all those different styles, and the breadth of my influences.
Wayne Proctor: Time Has Come was a mature record; it definitely showed Ben as a deeper artist but we just couldn’t quite get what Ben’s identity was on that album or who he wanted to be.
BP: Yes, and I think that’s why it went over some peoples’ heads – "well, what is it exactly?" or "just who is Ben Poole on this record?" [laughs]
WP: And interestingly, from a live point of view, there’s only three songs from that album in the current set. The Question Why is one example, that’s a song that instantly suited, from vocal to lyric to songwriting style to storytelling; that worked really well.
But some of the others just didn’t lend themselves to be playing live; they just weren’t bringing the audiences in for whatever reason.
Now, they were all great writers who wrote those songs, but if they had been writing in particular for Ben, they would have probably come up with something a little bit different.
So great songwriters and good songs but, as regards continuing on from Live at The Albert Hall, which was more the guitar-slinger thing and more epic in scope, making an album like Time Has Come probably didn’t make sense to some people.
RM: With that in mind, did you know where you wanted to go, musically, when it came time to record the follow up to Time Has Come?
WP: Definitely. We said as soon as we had finished Time Has Come we knew where we wanted to go and what we were going to do with the next one.
RM: The songwriting team consisted of the pair of you and Wayne’s House of Tone colleague Steve Wright.
The studio band was your good selves, bassist Beau Barnard and keyboardist Ross Stanley; you also had House of Tone recording engineer Andy Banfield. That small team format was intentional?
BP: Yes, very much. After Wayne and I had that initial conversation about making another album we said "yes, let’s just do it." We're not ones to hang around waiting once we’ve made our minds up!
Having that small team turned out to be the best thing that could have ever happened because we ended up writing and making the album we wanted to write and make, without any outside influences or involvement. We took a chance though because the label didn’t hear it until it was done; we waited until it was complete, and mastered, and presented it to them.
WP: We also sent it to Peter Noble of Noble PR who does Ben’s PR and promotion; Peter phoned me up at eight o’clock one morning, about half an hour after he’d downloaded it from the link I sent him.
He had only played through the first three or four songs – I could hear it playing in the background – and Peter was already saying "this sounds amazing!"
BP: He was on the phone to me at one point, too, still listening to the album, and telling me the track playing was great. Then, as the next one played he’d say "wait… yeah, this one too!" [laughs]
So Peter’s already pumped and he hasn’t heard it all the way through yet!
WP: He was still playing it when he messaged Alan Robinson of Manhaton Records and asking Alan if he had played it yet! [laughs].
Alan and Peter loved it, Manhaton Records released it, it’s done what it’s done and got all those great reviews. We’re very happy about that.
RM: That has to be extremely gratifying and quite the compliment when both label and PR are so high on it having not heard anything from it beforehand.
BP: It really was; and that’s true; hardly anyone had heard it until it was completely finished.
RM: One of the reasons Anytime You Need Me is so effective is the attention to detail.
The songs are strong across the board but there’s a clear and obvious emphasis on the arrangements, the lyrical shaping, the change-ups, the bridges…
BP: Yes, it was in the detail; we put so much effort in to every aspect of the songs.
We spent a lot of time in the writing studio and then demo’d the songs to a massively high quality – the sort of quality where a lot of other people would probably just put them out as finished articles.
WP: Some of the initial drum takes, up at Steve’s studio, I set myself up to do only four takes maximum for the demos, just to see what I could come up with.
We got some really cool stuff from those takes and that allowed us to crack on, because we just wanted to get it moving after that – get the bass, guitar and vocals down; then add the melodies.
But, when it came time for me to do the proper drum tracks it took me twenty times longer! [laughs] I just could not play what I had come up with at the demo stage!
I had done some of those early takes quite flippantly, or very quickly, but I just couldn't get the feel of those early takes down. It was a complete ball buster because I just could not get the groove right.
RM: I recall a conversation I had with Fee Waybill of The Tubes a few years ago and he spoke of the very same issues – Fee refers to it as the challenge to "beat the demo!"
WP: [laughs] Yes, that’s so true – demoitis! [laughs]. You hear about from so many others because it does happen!
RM: Part of that demoitis problem would be, I would surmise, because you were so relaxed and in comfortable territory with Steve and Ben, with no have-to-record pressure at that particular stage…
WP: Absolutely. At Steve’s it was three or four takes, and not really thinking about it.
Ben would be jamming along and Steve would be sat on the sofa just listening and making some comment like "that was really cool." And I’m thinking "is it, though?" [laughter] But turns out it really was!
RM: It also sounds like the demos were, or are, so good that you could consider putting them out as an EP of alternative versions.
BP: Or on an extended bonus track edition of the album! [laughs]. We almost could though because as I said earlier, we demo’d the songs to such a high quality – the demo versions of Take it No More, You Could Say and Further On Down the Line all have vocals and harmonies added; they’re fully fledged and sound amazing.
But, of course, then we then had to surpass the demos when we went it to the studio to record; the songs were already sounding good, but we really pushed ourselves to make them sound even better.
RM: Another of the album’s strengths, albeit a more subtle one, is the flow of its track sequencing and the balance of song styles, from the funky groove of the title track through to an atmospheric soul-blues ballad such as Found Out The Hard Way and on to heavy rock-blues closing track, Holding On.
BP: Part of that is because we had only written five or six of the songs before we started recording; that meant we were going back and forwards between the writing studio and the recording studio, which allowed us to see and hear how the album was shaping up and get a feel for what was missing, balancing out the album as we were writing.
As we were coming toward the end of the we realised we
still needed one more up-beat, rocky song with a cool riff and that was Anytime You Need Me, which was one of the last songs we wrote for the album.
Another was Found Out the Hard Way, because we felt we needed one more ballad.
That allowed us to hit all the points we needed for balance, and for the track sequencing.
WP: Holding On was another that we wrote nearer the end of the sessions and those three songs are three of the strongest songs. In a way it was shame it was coming to the end of the sessions when we wrote those songs because by then we were really rolling; there was a confidence that had come from our chemistry.
It would have been great to have ended up with a squad of about twenty songs and have stuff left over for another album.
RM: That’s an interesting point about the chemistry of the songwriting team.
Could you take me through how a songwriting session, or birth of a song, would normally come about?
WP: Well, it was hard work, but there was no reluctance at any point. We would throw ideas around, or at each other, then all of a sudden one of us would amalgamate everyone’s ideas and come up with something.
And that would be it; suddenly the gate was open and we had a melody, or a main lyrical theme.
BP: We would also listen to a few tunes during the writing sessions, to see if we could maybe come up with something in the same sort of vein, but there were also times when we would be sitting for about an hour with nothing or staring at a blank piece of paper that should have lyrics on it [laughs].
But then Wayne would come up with a groove or I would come up with something on the guitar – in fact the riff for Anytime You Need Me came from a period when we were just messing around.
Wayne said "that’s pretty cool, hang on a minute," jumped on the kit and come up with a groove.
We started jamming that riff and groove out and the rest of the song developed from there...
The songs are strong across the board but there’s a clear and obvious emphasis on the arrangements, the lyrical shaping, the change-ups, the bridges…
BP: Yes, it was in the detail; we put so much effort in to every aspect of the songs.
We spent a lot of time in the writing studio and then demo’d the songs to a massively high quality – the sort of quality where a lot of other people would probably just put them out as finished articles.
WP: Some of the initial drum takes, up at Steve’s studio, I set myself up to do only four takes maximum for the demos, just to see what I could come up with.
We got some really cool stuff from those takes and that allowed us to crack on, because we just wanted to get it moving after that – get the bass, guitar and vocals down; then add the melodies.
But, when it came time for me to do the proper drum tracks it took me twenty times longer! [laughs] I just could not play what I had come up with at the demo stage!
I had done some of those early takes quite flippantly, or very quickly, but I just couldn't get the feel of those early takes down. It was a complete ball buster because I just could not get the groove right.
RM: I recall a conversation I had with Fee Waybill of The Tubes a few years ago and he spoke of the very same issues – Fee refers to it as the challenge to "beat the demo!"
WP: [laughs] Yes, that’s so true – demoitis! [laughs]. You hear about from so many others because it does happen!
RM: Part of that demoitis problem would be, I would surmise, because you were so relaxed and in comfortable territory with Steve and Ben, with no have-to-record pressure at that particular stage…
WP: Absolutely. At Steve’s it was three or four takes, and not really thinking about it.
Ben would be jamming along and Steve would be sat on the sofa just listening and making some comment like "that was really cool." And I’m thinking "is it, though?" [laughter] But turns out it really was!
RM: It also sounds like the demos were, or are, so good that you could consider putting them out as an EP of alternative versions.
BP: Or on an extended bonus track edition of the album! [laughs]. We almost could though because as I said earlier, we demo’d the songs to such a high quality – the demo versions of Take it No More, You Could Say and Further On Down the Line all have vocals and harmonies added; they’re fully fledged and sound amazing.
But, of course, then we then had to surpass the demos when we went it to the studio to record; the songs were already sounding good, but we really pushed ourselves to make them sound even better.
RM: Another of the album’s strengths, albeit a more subtle one, is the flow of its track sequencing and the balance of song styles, from the funky groove of the title track through to an atmospheric soul-blues ballad such as Found Out The Hard Way and on to heavy rock-blues closing track, Holding On.
BP: Part of that is because we had only written five or six of the songs before we started recording; that meant we were going back and forwards between the writing studio and the recording studio, which allowed us to see and hear how the album was shaping up and get a feel for what was missing, balancing out the album as we were writing.
As we were coming toward the end of the we realised we
still needed one more up-beat, rocky song with a cool riff and that was Anytime You Need Me, which was one of the last songs we wrote for the album.
Another was Found Out the Hard Way, because we felt we needed one more ballad.
That allowed us to hit all the points we needed for balance, and for the track sequencing.
WP: Holding On was another that we wrote nearer the end of the sessions and those three songs are three of the strongest songs. In a way it was shame it was coming to the end of the sessions when we wrote those songs because by then we were really rolling; there was a confidence that had come from our chemistry.
It would have been great to have ended up with a squad of about twenty songs and have stuff left over for another album.
RM: That’s an interesting point about the chemistry of the songwriting team.
Could you take me through how a songwriting session, or birth of a song, would normally come about?
WP: Well, it was hard work, but there was no reluctance at any point. We would throw ideas around, or at each other, then all of a sudden one of us would amalgamate everyone’s ideas and come up with something.
And that would be it; suddenly the gate was open and we had a melody, or a main lyrical theme.
BP: We would also listen to a few tunes during the writing sessions, to see if we could maybe come up with something in the same sort of vein, but there were also times when we would be sitting for about an hour with nothing or staring at a blank piece of paper that should have lyrics on it [laughs].
But then Wayne would come up with a groove or I would come up with something on the guitar – in fact the riff for Anytime You Need Me came from a period when we were just messing around.
Wayne said "that’s pretty cool, hang on a minute," jumped on the kit and come up with a groove.
We started jamming that riff and groove out and the rest of the song developed from there...
RM: The title track is a great song. It has that funky little riff and main groove, but also benefits from a couple of change ups – blues rock by numbers this is not.
WP: That groove I think I stole [laughs] from the Maroon 5 song Harder to Breathe, which is on the Songs For Jane album; I remember thinking "that’s a really cool phrase."
It also has that whole Bonham thing going for it – we wanted a groove with that Zeppelin feel but with a funkier drum sound and even funkier guitar riff.
We added an odd time signature for the pre-chorus – we’ve never really done that before, but here it just sounded so cool, dropping in that 7/8 as a little twist – then we have the funkier chorus, with the off-beat to give us something more modulated, or slinkier, as opposed to a standard chorus.
So we were looking at each step, or keeping a step ahead, to keep the song interesting, while coming up with this really angular groove for the track; it was so satisfying.
RM: So, even at pre-vocal demo stage, you clearly knew you had something a bit special with songs like Anytime You Need Me.
WP: We really did. It’s about a three-hour drive from Steve’s home to mine but I listened to nothing but the instrumental version of that song on the trip home; I was just so buzzed about it.
And, again, we ended up with a great demo; in fact the only songs we didn’t demo were the covers, Dirty Laundry and Start the Car.
RM: What’s interesting about those songs is that you wouldn’t automatically think of a song by Jude Cole or an eighties Don Henley hit as choice covers, but they both fit Ben and Anytime You Need Me superbly well.
Who brought those songs to the table?
WP: Steve brought in Start the Car and I brought in Dirty Laundry. I don’t honestly know why I did [laughs] but it’s probably because I’ve had a fascination for this song for ages; I think it’s also because Jeff Porcaro is on drums and it has such a strong lyric from Don Henley and Danny Kortchmar.
It just seemed credible to us, to cover it, and it came out great. It’s just so cool.
RM: It’s an extraordinarily good fit for the album; almost the fulcrum point.
BP: Yes, it balances the album right out; it sits in the middle as something a little bit unexpected and just a little bit different.
There’s also the whole tongue in cheek thing with the lyrics, although the lyrics are even more apt now than when that song first came out, what with Social Media and the crazy stuff that’s out there.
We carried on that tongue in cheek slant with the video, which was very humorous, although that was another risk, on my part, to go down that route and stick a wig and fake moustache on!
I was starting to think "Have I moved too far into that cutie, comedy thing; will some people now not take me seriously as an artist?" But I have to say it’s gone down very well and a lesson for us all not to take ourselves too seriously; you’ve got to have a laugh every now and then – or get yourself surrounded my half-naked women dancing around a laundrette...!
WP: That groove I think I stole [laughs] from the Maroon 5 song Harder to Breathe, which is on the Songs For Jane album; I remember thinking "that’s a really cool phrase."
It also has that whole Bonham thing going for it – we wanted a groove with that Zeppelin feel but with a funkier drum sound and even funkier guitar riff.
We added an odd time signature for the pre-chorus – we’ve never really done that before, but here it just sounded so cool, dropping in that 7/8 as a little twist – then we have the funkier chorus, with the off-beat to give us something more modulated, or slinkier, as opposed to a standard chorus.
So we were looking at each step, or keeping a step ahead, to keep the song interesting, while coming up with this really angular groove for the track; it was so satisfying.
RM: So, even at pre-vocal demo stage, you clearly knew you had something a bit special with songs like Anytime You Need Me.
WP: We really did. It’s about a three-hour drive from Steve’s home to mine but I listened to nothing but the instrumental version of that song on the trip home; I was just so buzzed about it.
And, again, we ended up with a great demo; in fact the only songs we didn’t demo were the covers, Dirty Laundry and Start the Car.
RM: What’s interesting about those songs is that you wouldn’t automatically think of a song by Jude Cole or an eighties Don Henley hit as choice covers, but they both fit Ben and Anytime You Need Me superbly well.
Who brought those songs to the table?
WP: Steve brought in Start the Car and I brought in Dirty Laundry. I don’t honestly know why I did [laughs] but it’s probably because I’ve had a fascination for this song for ages; I think it’s also because Jeff Porcaro is on drums and it has such a strong lyric from Don Henley and Danny Kortchmar.
It just seemed credible to us, to cover it, and it came out great. It’s just so cool.
RM: It’s an extraordinarily good fit for the album; almost the fulcrum point.
BP: Yes, it balances the album right out; it sits in the middle as something a little bit unexpected and just a little bit different.
There’s also the whole tongue in cheek thing with the lyrics, although the lyrics are even more apt now than when that song first came out, what with Social Media and the crazy stuff that’s out there.
We carried on that tongue in cheek slant with the video, which was very humorous, although that was another risk, on my part, to go down that route and stick a wig and fake moustache on!
I was starting to think "Have I moved too far into that cutie, comedy thing; will some people now not take me seriously as an artist?" But I have to say it’s gone down very well and a lesson for us all not to take ourselves too seriously; you’ve got to have a laugh every now and then – or get yourself surrounded my half-naked women dancing around a laundrette...!
RM: Laundry fun and games aside, there’s also the serious matter of you having to follow in the six-string fretsteps of Joe Walsh and Steve Lukather…
BP: Yes, and that wasn’t easy – the original plan for Dirty Laundry was to have a guest player on it, because those are such big solo sections, particularly the second guitar solo, which is really long.
I was going to play one solo and have a guest on the other. Wayne suggested a few names – I think we ended up with a choice of four – but any guest player discussions ended when Wayne said "look, why don’t you just do both solos?"
And that’s what we did, which actually worked out really well – it set a real challenge for me because I had to make those solos interesting, particularly the second one; I can’t remember how many bars long but it was something like sixty-four; I think we edited it down a little but it was still a long-assed solo [laughs], so I had to make sure it was constantly interesting rhythmically, and melodically.
RM: I’d have to say mission accomplished in that respect. The song also has a great sound to it.
WP: Yeah, we worked hard with it. We also had great fun with the backing vocals; we had Ben out in one of the studio corridors singing the "kick ‘em when they’re up, kick ‘em when they’re down" lines..
BP: That’s right. I was at the bottom of a set of stairs and Andy had a mic at the top of the stairs; we were all shouting up to the mic to capture that sound [laughs]…
WP: …but it sounds monstrous because we had a crowd of people, not just Ben, and about twenty of those vocal tracks on the song; it just gave it those big reflections and, as you said, it became the centrepiece of the album.
RM: And, as the centrepiece, all the more reason why you, Ben, should, and did, record both solos.
They also emphasise and underline that, as I said in review, Anytime You Need Me features some of your coolest, free-flowing and expressive guitar work to date.
BP: Thank you. I was thinking about that song just the other day and realising that, having made the video, it was lucky we didn’t go with the guest idea because it would have been difficult to get them for the filming.
And if we had, we'd then have to have said "Oh by the way, you have to wear a wig, a false moustache and play a bit of air guitar!" [laughter]
WP: That sort of serendipity happened a few times with this album. The original keyboard player, who was going to play on the album, had other things going on so that fell through.
We were getting stressed out in the studio about things like that until I realised "Hang on, this was all meant to happen" – the guest player idea falling through and Ben doing both solos; the ethos of that small four-man team – me, Ben, Steve and Andy – for writing and recording; Beau Barnard and Ross Stanley coming in and doing such fantastic jobs.
And the more it was about that small team the better it became and the purer the process – and an end result where it’s more of Ben.
BP: Yes, and that wasn’t easy – the original plan for Dirty Laundry was to have a guest player on it, because those are such big solo sections, particularly the second guitar solo, which is really long.
I was going to play one solo and have a guest on the other. Wayne suggested a few names – I think we ended up with a choice of four – but any guest player discussions ended when Wayne said "look, why don’t you just do both solos?"
And that’s what we did, which actually worked out really well – it set a real challenge for me because I had to make those solos interesting, particularly the second one; I can’t remember how many bars long but it was something like sixty-four; I think we edited it down a little but it was still a long-assed solo [laughs], so I had to make sure it was constantly interesting rhythmically, and melodically.
RM: I’d have to say mission accomplished in that respect. The song also has a great sound to it.
WP: Yeah, we worked hard with it. We also had great fun with the backing vocals; we had Ben out in one of the studio corridors singing the "kick ‘em when they’re up, kick ‘em when they’re down" lines..
BP: That’s right. I was at the bottom of a set of stairs and Andy had a mic at the top of the stairs; we were all shouting up to the mic to capture that sound [laughs]…
WP: …but it sounds monstrous because we had a crowd of people, not just Ben, and about twenty of those vocal tracks on the song; it just gave it those big reflections and, as you said, it became the centrepiece of the album.
RM: And, as the centrepiece, all the more reason why you, Ben, should, and did, record both solos.
They also emphasise and underline that, as I said in review, Anytime You Need Me features some of your coolest, free-flowing and expressive guitar work to date.
BP: Thank you. I was thinking about that song just the other day and realising that, having made the video, it was lucky we didn’t go with the guest idea because it would have been difficult to get them for the filming.
And if we had, we'd then have to have said "Oh by the way, you have to wear a wig, a false moustache and play a bit of air guitar!" [laughter]
WP: That sort of serendipity happened a few times with this album. The original keyboard player, who was going to play on the album, had other things going on so that fell through.
We were getting stressed out in the studio about things like that until I realised "Hang on, this was all meant to happen" – the guest player idea falling through and Ben doing both solos; the ethos of that small four-man team – me, Ben, Steve and Andy – for writing and recording; Beau Barnard and Ross Stanley coming in and doing such fantastic jobs.
And the more it was about that small team the better it became and the purer the process – and an end result where it’s more of Ben.
RM: As mentioned earlier, Anytime You Need Me helps define Ben Poole the artist, but as regards Ben Poole the guitarist...
You’re a Telecaster man but you’ve been using your Les Paul a lot on recent tours and selected songs.
Can you immediately get a feel for what guitar will better serve you on a given song, or when recording a particular track?
BP: I usually have an instinct, but that’s not always been the case.
There have been times when we’re recording a rockier tune and I’d often gravitate towards the Les Paul but, on Holding On for example, one of the heavier songs on the album, I started on the Les Paul but ended up switching to the Tele to get a bit more clarity on the notes, because initially that was a tough one to get to sit just right when we were recording it.
WP: Yes, Holding On was another that sounded great on the demo but it took us ages to get the right snare drum sound. I remember I kept saying to Ben in the studio "we’re not there yet" which he hates [laughs] but we really weren’t. We eventually got it, and the final version is really cool, but it took us a while.
BP: But when you’re striving for greatness you’ve got to keep pushing; if you’re only at ninety-nine percent then you’re not done yet.
It was hard work – I was away from home from New Year’s Day of 2018 until around May, working on the album day in day and out while also having to fit in the respective shows we both had – but it really was a fun process to be part of and we turned out a great album.
You’re a Telecaster man but you’ve been using your Les Paul a lot on recent tours and selected songs.
Can you immediately get a feel for what guitar will better serve you on a given song, or when recording a particular track?
BP: I usually have an instinct, but that’s not always been the case.
There have been times when we’re recording a rockier tune and I’d often gravitate towards the Les Paul but, on Holding On for example, one of the heavier songs on the album, I started on the Les Paul but ended up switching to the Tele to get a bit more clarity on the notes, because initially that was a tough one to get to sit just right when we were recording it.
WP: Yes, Holding On was another that sounded great on the demo but it took us ages to get the right snare drum sound. I remember I kept saying to Ben in the studio "we’re not there yet" which he hates [laughs] but we really weren’t. We eventually got it, and the final version is really cool, but it took us a while.
BP: But when you’re striving for greatness you’ve got to keep pushing; if you’re only at ninety-nine percent then you’re not done yet.
It was hard work – I was away from home from New Year’s Day of 2018 until around May, working on the album day in day and out while also having to fit in the respective shows we both had – but it really was a fun process to be part of and we turned out a great album.
Ross Muir
Muirsical Conversation with Ben Poole and Wayne Proctor
January 2019
Audio tracks presented to accompany the above article and to promote the work of the artist.
No infringement of copyright is intended.
Photo credits: Adam Kennedy (Ben Poole); Ritchie Birnie/ Jace Media (Wayne Proctor)
Muirsical Conversation with Ben Poole and Wayne Proctor
January 2019
Audio tracks presented to accompany the above article and to promote the work of the artist.
No infringement of copyright is intended.
Photo credits: Adam Kennedy (Ben Poole); Ritchie Birnie/ Jace Media (Wayne Proctor)