The drummer boy’s back in town
Muirsical Conversation with Brian Downey
Muirsical Conversation with Brian Downey
One of the great (yet forever underrated) rock drummers, Brian Downey was an ever-present member of Thin Lizzy along with the band’s guiding light, the charismatic, roguish and sorely missed Phil Lynott, during the band’s thirteen year, twelve studio album run.
Brian Downey was also as much a part of Lizzy’s sound as Phil Lynott’s distinct vocal and percussive bass stylings, original guitarist Eric Bell’s bluesier tones and the now classic twin-guitar attack of Scott Gorham and six-string partners Brian Robertson, Gary Moore, Snowy White and, latterly, John Sykes.
Having been involved in number of the line-ups that featured in the partial-reunion Thin Lizzy shows and tours from 1996 through to 2012, Brian Downey decided to step away and return to Dublin, where a string of seemingly fortuitous meetings and musical get-togethers conspired to put him well and truly back on the Lizzy trail.
Brian Downey’s Alive And Dangerous both celebrate, and play homage to, one of the greatest ever live albums in rock, Thin Lizzy's Live and Dangerous.
The band's initial performances in and around Ireland were so well received that an invite to perform at Nell's Jazz & Blues Club in London soon followed. Fan and public demand has since led to gigs further afield including Sweden Rock earlier in 2018 and, more recently, a tour of the UK.
FabricationsHQ spoke to Brian Downey during the UK tour to talk a little Lizzy history and set the (double) record straight on the Live and Overdubbed myths, give credit where credit is due to Phil Lynott’s seldom discussed bass playing ability and the musical future for Alive And Dangerous.
But the conversation opened by recounting the chain of events that led to the formation of the band in Brian Downey's home city of Dublin…
Ross Muir: If I could start by dropping back a couple of years to just after the 2012 Thin Lizzy reunion tour.
When Scott Gorham made the decision to form a new recording and performing band under the name Black Star Riders you declined the opportunity to be part of that band and headed back home to Dublin.
But you had no plans, or intentions, to form a new band of your own at this time?
Brian Downey: That’s exactly right, yes. I didn’t have anything planned at that particular time.
Just after the Thin Lizzy reunion tour ended in 2012 there was no thought in my mind about forming a band, although, after most tours and like a lot of musicians, in Dublin especially, you do get a call every so often to play a blues gig or a blues festival around the country.
So that’s what I intended to do; just go out and play a few odd gigs, just to keep my hand in and keep myself interested. So, no, nothing at all was planned when the reunion band split.
RM: And yet everything seemed to dovetail, or fall fortuitously in place, for the band we now know as Brian Downey’s Alive and Dangerous…
BD: About a month or so after the whole Lizzy reunion thing finished I just happened to have a conversation with a friend of mine called Brian Grace; I was putting feelers out and asking him what he was doing – he’s an in demand musician in Dublin so he was actually doing lots of stuff – but he did mention it might be fun to do the odd gig or two in a club, just to have some fun.
I thought that was a good idea so we ended up doing a couple of rehearsal with another few friends of ours, but it was nothing really serious.
But, when we started playing, we found we were all jamming on Thin Lizzy tunes! [laughs]
That was great; we didn’t do any blues or anything else for that matter, we just played Lizzy songs, which allowed us to see and hear if they were good players and in to it as much as we were.
There was still nothing really planned even then, until Brian mentioned that it might be good just to continue playing the Thin Lizzy songs and get other musicians who were really in to it.
He suggested a few guys he knew from playing the Vibe for Philo, a very successful annual event in Dublin. He mentioned Matt Wilson and Phil Edgar, who had played the previous year with Brian at the Vibe.
I was invited up to have a jam with them and that tuned out to be really good; these guys could play the songs without any problem and with very little rehearsal.
That jam was the catalyst for getting Brian Downey’s Alive And Dangerous together.
RM: Isn’t it extraordinary how some things just come to you if you don’t go looking or don’t force it.
And it’s not just that all three of the guys know and play the Thin Lizzy material so well; they are also big Lizzy fans…
BD: Oh absolutely; they are genuinely big fans.
I’d heard of Matt and Phil before I jammed with them and I’ve known Brian Grace for years, so I kind of knew these guys were into Thin Lizzy, but by the time we got to rehearsals it was obvious they really had studied the songs.
Normally when you get up to jam with musicians who know the Thin Lizzy songs, there is usually a couple of notes or phrases that don’t fit, or weren’t on the original recordings, or Phil Lynott didn’t write them quite the way the others played them [laughs] – but that wasn’t the case with Matt and Phil.
They seemed to know all the nuances within the music, which was brilliant, and as rehearsals carried on I found out that they were absolutely steeped in Thin Lizzy music and had been since a very early age.
An amazing find, really, and I’m extremely lucky that Brian Grace brought the subject up when he did because we haven’t looked back since!
RM: You touched on some points there that help sum up why this band is so good.
There are hundreds of tribute and homage bands in the UK and a fair number of Thin Lizzy tributes.
But, other than the bonus of having you involved and your obvious connection to the source material, this band has those nuances you mentioned and they get the subtleties of the material – I would describe it as having a passion for the material, not just a band playing the material.
BD: That’s absolutely right. There is a passion there and, as you said, my addition is a big bonus, but they could probably work without me they are so good!
Obviously my name’s at the front though, to help make the band known; I think if we went out otherwise no-one would know who the hell we were – we have to sell the band.
But there’s a passion there, no doubt about it; the guys, as I mentioned earlier, are steeped in Thin Lizzy music. Their parents were fans too – they must have been playing those Lizzy records all the time! [laughs]
Brian Downey was also as much a part of Lizzy’s sound as Phil Lynott’s distinct vocal and percussive bass stylings, original guitarist Eric Bell’s bluesier tones and the now classic twin-guitar attack of Scott Gorham and six-string partners Brian Robertson, Gary Moore, Snowy White and, latterly, John Sykes.
Having been involved in number of the line-ups that featured in the partial-reunion Thin Lizzy shows and tours from 1996 through to 2012, Brian Downey decided to step away and return to Dublin, where a string of seemingly fortuitous meetings and musical get-togethers conspired to put him well and truly back on the Lizzy trail.
Brian Downey’s Alive And Dangerous both celebrate, and play homage to, one of the greatest ever live albums in rock, Thin Lizzy's Live and Dangerous.
The band's initial performances in and around Ireland were so well received that an invite to perform at Nell's Jazz & Blues Club in London soon followed. Fan and public demand has since led to gigs further afield including Sweden Rock earlier in 2018 and, more recently, a tour of the UK.
FabricationsHQ spoke to Brian Downey during the UK tour to talk a little Lizzy history and set the (double) record straight on the Live and Overdubbed myths, give credit where credit is due to Phil Lynott’s seldom discussed bass playing ability and the musical future for Alive And Dangerous.
But the conversation opened by recounting the chain of events that led to the formation of the band in Brian Downey's home city of Dublin…
Ross Muir: If I could start by dropping back a couple of years to just after the 2012 Thin Lizzy reunion tour.
When Scott Gorham made the decision to form a new recording and performing band under the name Black Star Riders you declined the opportunity to be part of that band and headed back home to Dublin.
But you had no plans, or intentions, to form a new band of your own at this time?
Brian Downey: That’s exactly right, yes. I didn’t have anything planned at that particular time.
Just after the Thin Lizzy reunion tour ended in 2012 there was no thought in my mind about forming a band, although, after most tours and like a lot of musicians, in Dublin especially, you do get a call every so often to play a blues gig or a blues festival around the country.
So that’s what I intended to do; just go out and play a few odd gigs, just to keep my hand in and keep myself interested. So, no, nothing at all was planned when the reunion band split.
RM: And yet everything seemed to dovetail, or fall fortuitously in place, for the band we now know as Brian Downey’s Alive and Dangerous…
BD: About a month or so after the whole Lizzy reunion thing finished I just happened to have a conversation with a friend of mine called Brian Grace; I was putting feelers out and asking him what he was doing – he’s an in demand musician in Dublin so he was actually doing lots of stuff – but he did mention it might be fun to do the odd gig or two in a club, just to have some fun.
I thought that was a good idea so we ended up doing a couple of rehearsal with another few friends of ours, but it was nothing really serious.
But, when we started playing, we found we were all jamming on Thin Lizzy tunes! [laughs]
That was great; we didn’t do any blues or anything else for that matter, we just played Lizzy songs, which allowed us to see and hear if they were good players and in to it as much as we were.
There was still nothing really planned even then, until Brian mentioned that it might be good just to continue playing the Thin Lizzy songs and get other musicians who were really in to it.
He suggested a few guys he knew from playing the Vibe for Philo, a very successful annual event in Dublin. He mentioned Matt Wilson and Phil Edgar, who had played the previous year with Brian at the Vibe.
I was invited up to have a jam with them and that tuned out to be really good; these guys could play the songs without any problem and with very little rehearsal.
That jam was the catalyst for getting Brian Downey’s Alive And Dangerous together.
RM: Isn’t it extraordinary how some things just come to you if you don’t go looking or don’t force it.
And it’s not just that all three of the guys know and play the Thin Lizzy material so well; they are also big Lizzy fans…
BD: Oh absolutely; they are genuinely big fans.
I’d heard of Matt and Phil before I jammed with them and I’ve known Brian Grace for years, so I kind of knew these guys were into Thin Lizzy, but by the time we got to rehearsals it was obvious they really had studied the songs.
Normally when you get up to jam with musicians who know the Thin Lizzy songs, there is usually a couple of notes or phrases that don’t fit, or weren’t on the original recordings, or Phil Lynott didn’t write them quite the way the others played them [laughs] – but that wasn’t the case with Matt and Phil.
They seemed to know all the nuances within the music, which was brilliant, and as rehearsals carried on I found out that they were absolutely steeped in Thin Lizzy music and had been since a very early age.
An amazing find, really, and I’m extremely lucky that Brian Grace brought the subject up when he did because we haven’t looked back since!
RM: You touched on some points there that help sum up why this band is so good.
There are hundreds of tribute and homage bands in the UK and a fair number of Thin Lizzy tributes.
But, other than the bonus of having you involved and your obvious connection to the source material, this band has those nuances you mentioned and they get the subtleties of the material – I would describe it as having a passion for the material, not just a band playing the material.
BD: That’s absolutely right. There is a passion there and, as you said, my addition is a big bonus, but they could probably work without me they are so good!
Obviously my name’s at the front though, to help make the band known; I think if we went out otherwise no-one would know who the hell we were – we have to sell the band.
But there’s a passion there, no doubt about it; the guys, as I mentioned earlier, are steeped in Thin Lizzy music. Their parents were fans too – they must have been playing those Lizzy records all the time! [laughs]
Phil Edgar (guitars, backing vocals), Brian Downey (drums), Brian Grace (guitars, backing vocals), Matt Wilson (lead vocals, bass). Keeping the sound of classic Thin Lizzy Alive, and Dangerously good at it.
RM: Collectively this a great band but individually there is genuine talent here. Your drumming ability goes without saying, Phil and Brian are both great guitarists and Matt has a natural vocal affinity to Phil Lynott.
The inflections and phrasings are also very similar; he’s not forcing or mimicking, like a number of others taking on Phil's vocality have to do.
BD: I agree. I was amazed the first time I heard Matt; some of his vocal inflections were very similar to Phil. His phrasing of the songs was impeccable as well. I don’t sing, but I know from talking to other singers that it’s kind of hard to get Phil’s phrasing and vocal inflections right, but Matt seems to have them naturally.
His natural voice is very close to Phil’s as well; when you listen to Phil you could hear those flowing, lyrical lines coming out and Matt has that.
Matt has a more Northern Irish accent, but he certainly has the same tone, there’s no doubt about that.
RM: You joked a little earlier about the band being able to do this without you but you’re right about the name that fronts the band – if it’s a known name, or a direct association to classic rock act of the seventies or eighties, you have to lead with that name. It just makes smart, promotional sense…
BD: I think we did have a problem when the band was first formed.
We weren’t exactly sure how to approach it until a friend of ours came up with the idea of putting an A at the front of Live and Dangerous and calling it Alive And Dangerous, to help differentiate from the album and the performing band.
I thought that was a pretty good idea. Then someone said "why not put your own name in front of that; then everyone will know what this band is all about." So that’s what we did!
RM: It certainly references what is going on and the direct connection to classic Lizzy.
Nor of course are you the first, and you certainly won’t be the last, to lead with a significant name fronting a band, including guys behind the kit – Corky Laing Plays Mountain for one.
Corky and his band tour and perform the classic Mountain material.
BD: That’s right. Chris Slade too, who played with AC/DC among many other bands; he has his own band, The Chris Slade Timeline.
I know Carl Palmer has his music of ELP thing going, too…
RM: Carl Palmer’s ELP Legacy; he tours that very successfully.
BD: Yeah, there’s a good few of them around; we definitely have similarities to those guys, playing classic material.
RM: On the subject of classic material we have to talk about Live and Dangerous and clear up the somewhat controversial comments by producer Tony Visconti a few years back when he claimed around seventy-five percent of that album was overdubbed in the studio.
There are very few live rock albums, certainly of that era, that didn’t have some overdubs or studio tweaks, but you just have to listen to good quality bootlegs that exist of Thin Lizzy or the Still Dangerous live album released in 2009 to hear that Live and Dangerous is, for the most part, the genuine article.
BD: That’s absolutely right, yeah.
RM: But, through all the comment about what was or wasn’t overdubbed, it’s a testament to your ability as one of the rock drummers that Tony confirmed the drums were untouched and left as recorded live.
But then for me, and many others, you were one the best musicians, yet paradoxically also one of the unsung heroes, of seventies and eighties classic rock.
BD: That's very kind of you to say, Ross, but I think I got lucky back then, when we were listening to the Live and Dangerous recordings in the studio – the takes we lifted from the Hammersmith Odeon and the stuff from Philadelphia and Toronto.
But there were times, during playback, where some people were getting a little bit restless or a few eyes were looking up to the heavens at some of the bass lines that were wrong, or a guitar solo that had a couple of notes that didn’t really suit. But I was just sitting there concentrating on the drums, and very little else.
That’s what you tend to do in the studio though; you tend to listen to your own work and very little else on playback – or the first couple of listens; after that you relax a little and start listening to the songs and the other instruments.
At that initial listening stage Tony knew a couple of the boys weren’t too happy with some of what they heard, or had noticed a mistake or two – and he did mention it to them, to give him his due.
He’d say to Phil "I notice, Phil, you’re not too happy about this bit" and Phil would say "yeah, you’re right, can we overdub it?" So Phil would add a couple of lines, listen again, and maybe add in another line.
But then Scott would stand up and say "well, seeing as Phil did it maybe I should get to overdub a part I don’t particularly like." Then Brian Robertson; he’d do the same and add in one or two guitar overdubs.
So now I’m very attentively listening to what I was playing [laughs] but I’m also thinking "well, to do another snare beat we have to get the snare to produce exactly the same sound as we have on the recording."
I didn’t really think it was necessary to go through that sort of rigmarole so I said to Tony "let’s just leave it" rather than add one or two snare beats, or some cymbal crashes.
So everybody else was happy enough to do some overdubs of their own but we just left the drums, but where that seventy-five percent came from I have no idea; it’s nowhere near that in my book.
It may be up to about twenty percent when you add up all the vocal and guitar overdubs but I think seventy-five is a serious miscalculation on Tony’s part.
You’re right, there were always overdubs on those live albums but there were absolutely no overdubs on the drums on Live and Dangerous.
RM: Which reinforces my earlier point. I know you said you got lucky but I’m not buying that.
You were outstandingly precise with great feel; you also had pace and power when it was needed – and it was certainly needed on a lot of the Thin Lizzy catalogue.
BD: Thank you so much, I appreciate you saying all that Ross, really.
And yes, a lot of the songs did need a lot of power!
RM: Collectively this a great band but individually there is genuine talent here. Your drumming ability goes without saying, Phil and Brian are both great guitarists and Matt has a natural vocal affinity to Phil Lynott.
The inflections and phrasings are also very similar; he’s not forcing or mimicking, like a number of others taking on Phil's vocality have to do.
BD: I agree. I was amazed the first time I heard Matt; some of his vocal inflections were very similar to Phil. His phrasing of the songs was impeccable as well. I don’t sing, but I know from talking to other singers that it’s kind of hard to get Phil’s phrasing and vocal inflections right, but Matt seems to have them naturally.
His natural voice is very close to Phil’s as well; when you listen to Phil you could hear those flowing, lyrical lines coming out and Matt has that.
Matt has a more Northern Irish accent, but he certainly has the same tone, there’s no doubt about that.
RM: You joked a little earlier about the band being able to do this without you but you’re right about the name that fronts the band – if it’s a known name, or a direct association to classic rock act of the seventies or eighties, you have to lead with that name. It just makes smart, promotional sense…
BD: I think we did have a problem when the band was first formed.
We weren’t exactly sure how to approach it until a friend of ours came up with the idea of putting an A at the front of Live and Dangerous and calling it Alive And Dangerous, to help differentiate from the album and the performing band.
I thought that was a pretty good idea. Then someone said "why not put your own name in front of that; then everyone will know what this band is all about." So that’s what we did!
RM: It certainly references what is going on and the direct connection to classic Lizzy.
Nor of course are you the first, and you certainly won’t be the last, to lead with a significant name fronting a band, including guys behind the kit – Corky Laing Plays Mountain for one.
Corky and his band tour and perform the classic Mountain material.
BD: That’s right. Chris Slade too, who played with AC/DC among many other bands; he has his own band, The Chris Slade Timeline.
I know Carl Palmer has his music of ELP thing going, too…
RM: Carl Palmer’s ELP Legacy; he tours that very successfully.
BD: Yeah, there’s a good few of them around; we definitely have similarities to those guys, playing classic material.
RM: On the subject of classic material we have to talk about Live and Dangerous and clear up the somewhat controversial comments by producer Tony Visconti a few years back when he claimed around seventy-five percent of that album was overdubbed in the studio.
There are very few live rock albums, certainly of that era, that didn’t have some overdubs or studio tweaks, but you just have to listen to good quality bootlegs that exist of Thin Lizzy or the Still Dangerous live album released in 2009 to hear that Live and Dangerous is, for the most part, the genuine article.
BD: That’s absolutely right, yeah.
RM: But, through all the comment about what was or wasn’t overdubbed, it’s a testament to your ability as one of the rock drummers that Tony confirmed the drums were untouched and left as recorded live.
But then for me, and many others, you were one the best musicians, yet paradoxically also one of the unsung heroes, of seventies and eighties classic rock.
BD: That's very kind of you to say, Ross, but I think I got lucky back then, when we were listening to the Live and Dangerous recordings in the studio – the takes we lifted from the Hammersmith Odeon and the stuff from Philadelphia and Toronto.
But there were times, during playback, where some people were getting a little bit restless or a few eyes were looking up to the heavens at some of the bass lines that were wrong, or a guitar solo that had a couple of notes that didn’t really suit. But I was just sitting there concentrating on the drums, and very little else.
That’s what you tend to do in the studio though; you tend to listen to your own work and very little else on playback – or the first couple of listens; after that you relax a little and start listening to the songs and the other instruments.
At that initial listening stage Tony knew a couple of the boys weren’t too happy with some of what they heard, or had noticed a mistake or two – and he did mention it to them, to give him his due.
He’d say to Phil "I notice, Phil, you’re not too happy about this bit" and Phil would say "yeah, you’re right, can we overdub it?" So Phil would add a couple of lines, listen again, and maybe add in another line.
But then Scott would stand up and say "well, seeing as Phil did it maybe I should get to overdub a part I don’t particularly like." Then Brian Robertson; he’d do the same and add in one or two guitar overdubs.
So now I’m very attentively listening to what I was playing [laughs] but I’m also thinking "well, to do another snare beat we have to get the snare to produce exactly the same sound as we have on the recording."
I didn’t really think it was necessary to go through that sort of rigmarole so I said to Tony "let’s just leave it" rather than add one or two snare beats, or some cymbal crashes.
So everybody else was happy enough to do some overdubs of their own but we just left the drums, but where that seventy-five percent came from I have no idea; it’s nowhere near that in my book.
It may be up to about twenty percent when you add up all the vocal and guitar overdubs but I think seventy-five is a serious miscalculation on Tony’s part.
You’re right, there were always overdubs on those live albums but there were absolutely no overdubs on the drums on Live and Dangerous.
RM: Which reinforces my earlier point. I know you said you got lucky but I’m not buying that.
You were outstandingly precise with great feel; you also had pace and power when it was needed – and it was certainly needed on a lot of the Thin Lizzy catalogue.
BD: Thank you so much, I appreciate you saying all that Ross, really.
And yes, a lot of the songs did need a lot of power!
RM: Having discussed the Thin Lizzy drums, we have to dovetail with the other half of the Lizzy rhythm section, Phil Lynott’s bass playing.
When we talk about, or remember, Phil, we think of his presence and charisma, that glint in the eye, the roguish charm, his distinct vocal style, but seldom is mentioned his bass playing.
That was a huge part of the Lizzy sound…
BD: And what’s remarkable about that is – and this might be unique – just before the band formed, about five or six weeks before the official announcement of the band that would become Thin Lizzy, Phil said to Eric Bell and myself "guys, let’s not look for a bass player; I want to play bass. I’ve been taking some secret lessons from Pat Quigley and a couple of lessons from Brush Shiels."
I could not believe what I was hearing! [laughs]
RM: I can just imagine your, and Eric’s, face [laughs]. This would be Brush Shiels who Phil played with for a short time in Skid Row and Pat Quigley was in Orphanage, the band you and Phil formed prior to Thin Lizzy...
BD: That’s right. Phil had taken lessons from them both and when I went down to his house a few days after he had told us he was practising away on the bass with no amplifier – he was just playing away on a Fender Jazz bass and what I was heard was amazing.
He was only a couple of months in and he was playing all the lines Pat and Brush had taught him to play.
He was also listening to Jack Bruce and all the major rock bassists of the time; he was literally rehearsing on his own for eighteen hours a day, getting a few hours of sleep and then getting back to it!
He did that day in, day out; he was so dedicated to it.
When we finally got to band rehearsals a few months later there were still a couple of things Phil wasn’t entirely confident about or comfortable with on the bass – we were stopping and starting during those rehearsals because Phil was still getting used to the idea of playing bass in a band.
That was a bit of a chore but after a few weeks he took to it like a duck to water – it was just getting that little bit of confidence and knowing what was required.
I also remember saying "well, it’s a very percussive way of playing" and it was – I just I tried to complement it.
I was a fairly heavy hitter and I wasn’t laying back during those rehearsals, as Eric Bell will tell you, and we were all up for it, Phil probably more than anybody – he was pumping out these big bass lines and they just sounded amazing to me.
RM: And that’s how you shaped and formed that initial three-piece Thin Lizzy sound?
BD: Yeah. We would jam for ten, fifteen minutes on a particular number until everybody got really comfortable with it. Then, after six or seven rehearsals, we would be very smooth.
And Phil never stopped. After we had finished band rehearsals Phil would continue his own rehearsals and practice sessions; he was massively dedicated.
In fact he wasn’t long playing bass when we recorded the Thin Lizzy album for Decca Records.
We had been rehearsing maybe seven or eight months then we went in to a major studio to record our first album. An incredible feat of musicianship and talent from Phil.
RM: Your "percussive" comment sums up Phil’s playing perfectly – there was a staccato bass and vocal phrasing to many a Thin Lizzy number, which became an important part of the band’s sound, whether in the trio days with Eric or the now classic era as a twin-guitar quartet.
BD: He was very individualistic – in fact his bass style came out of his singing style and the way he phrased his vocals. His bass playing was very complementary to his singing.
He developed a very natural way of playing bass and it was an absolute pleasure to play with Phil because, after about eight or nine months, he’d lay the bass down so well the rhythm section became really well-honed. I had no fear of getting up on stage with Phil, nor did anyone else, to play in front of an audience.
RM: He never seemed to lack in stage confidence, that’s for sure…
BD: No, although Phil did have reservations at the very early stage of his playing – having the confidence to do it, or being a little but shy about getting up to play, but that didn’t take long to go.
He really did come in to his own after a few months without any problem whatsoever; that’s when his talent and dedication started to really shine through.
RM: I’m glad you mentioned the debut album because while no-one is going to deny the classic Lizzy era, and classic Lizzy albums, would come as a twin-guitar quartet through the mid-seventies and early eighties, that’s an interesting, multi-styled record. I still have a soft spot for the debut album.
BD: I do too, as do many Lizzy fans from the very early days; I think it captured the sound and style of the band, as it was then, brilliantly.
We had a really good producer in Scott English; what we were playing in clubs and small theatres at that time is what you hear on that record. Scott really captured our sound on that record.
When we talk about, or remember, Phil, we think of his presence and charisma, that glint in the eye, the roguish charm, his distinct vocal style, but seldom is mentioned his bass playing.
That was a huge part of the Lizzy sound…
BD: And what’s remarkable about that is – and this might be unique – just before the band formed, about five or six weeks before the official announcement of the band that would become Thin Lizzy, Phil said to Eric Bell and myself "guys, let’s not look for a bass player; I want to play bass. I’ve been taking some secret lessons from Pat Quigley and a couple of lessons from Brush Shiels."
I could not believe what I was hearing! [laughs]
RM: I can just imagine your, and Eric’s, face [laughs]. This would be Brush Shiels who Phil played with for a short time in Skid Row and Pat Quigley was in Orphanage, the band you and Phil formed prior to Thin Lizzy...
BD: That’s right. Phil had taken lessons from them both and when I went down to his house a few days after he had told us he was practising away on the bass with no amplifier – he was just playing away on a Fender Jazz bass and what I was heard was amazing.
He was only a couple of months in and he was playing all the lines Pat and Brush had taught him to play.
He was also listening to Jack Bruce and all the major rock bassists of the time; he was literally rehearsing on his own for eighteen hours a day, getting a few hours of sleep and then getting back to it!
He did that day in, day out; he was so dedicated to it.
When we finally got to band rehearsals a few months later there were still a couple of things Phil wasn’t entirely confident about or comfortable with on the bass – we were stopping and starting during those rehearsals because Phil was still getting used to the idea of playing bass in a band.
That was a bit of a chore but after a few weeks he took to it like a duck to water – it was just getting that little bit of confidence and knowing what was required.
I also remember saying "well, it’s a very percussive way of playing" and it was – I just I tried to complement it.
I was a fairly heavy hitter and I wasn’t laying back during those rehearsals, as Eric Bell will tell you, and we were all up for it, Phil probably more than anybody – he was pumping out these big bass lines and they just sounded amazing to me.
RM: And that’s how you shaped and formed that initial three-piece Thin Lizzy sound?
BD: Yeah. We would jam for ten, fifteen minutes on a particular number until everybody got really comfortable with it. Then, after six or seven rehearsals, we would be very smooth.
And Phil never stopped. After we had finished band rehearsals Phil would continue his own rehearsals and practice sessions; he was massively dedicated.
In fact he wasn’t long playing bass when we recorded the Thin Lizzy album for Decca Records.
We had been rehearsing maybe seven or eight months then we went in to a major studio to record our first album. An incredible feat of musicianship and talent from Phil.
RM: Your "percussive" comment sums up Phil’s playing perfectly – there was a staccato bass and vocal phrasing to many a Thin Lizzy number, which became an important part of the band’s sound, whether in the trio days with Eric or the now classic era as a twin-guitar quartet.
BD: He was very individualistic – in fact his bass style came out of his singing style and the way he phrased his vocals. His bass playing was very complementary to his singing.
He developed a very natural way of playing bass and it was an absolute pleasure to play with Phil because, after about eight or nine months, he’d lay the bass down so well the rhythm section became really well-honed. I had no fear of getting up on stage with Phil, nor did anyone else, to play in front of an audience.
RM: He never seemed to lack in stage confidence, that’s for sure…
BD: No, although Phil did have reservations at the very early stage of his playing – having the confidence to do it, or being a little but shy about getting up to play, but that didn’t take long to go.
He really did come in to his own after a few months without any problem whatsoever; that’s when his talent and dedication started to really shine through.
RM: I’m glad you mentioned the debut album because while no-one is going to deny the classic Lizzy era, and classic Lizzy albums, would come as a twin-guitar quartet through the mid-seventies and early eighties, that’s an interesting, multi-styled record. I still have a soft spot for the debut album.
BD: I do too, as do many Lizzy fans from the very early days; I think it captured the sound and style of the band, as it was then, brilliantly.
We had a really good producer in Scott English; what we were playing in clubs and small theatres at that time is what you hear on that record. Scott really captured our sound on that record.
RM: Given the individual and collective talent of Alive And Dangerous and the other guys’ clear love and passion for the Lizzy material, will we see and hear the band covering different eras of Thin Lizzy, including those earliest periods, in the future?
BD: The funny thing is when we go in to rehearsals Matt or Phil might call out a tune from the first couple of albums – Think Lizzy or Shades of a Blue Orphanage – and someone else will say "yeah, let’s play that!" even although it’s never been rehearsed before!
And that’s what happens with this band; someone names a tune and we just play it, or at least try it out, because there will be mistakes – but I’m the one making most of the mistakes! [laughter]
The other guys have played these tunes much more than me in other bands, or at Vibe For Philo shows – I haven’t played some of those songs for a long time so I’m relying on them, really! [laughs]
But that still happens, even now – we’ll be at a rehearsal for an upcoming tour or show and someone will call out an old Lizzy tune and we’ll have a go at it, just for fun and for a laugh; it might start with a something like It’s Only Money from Nightlife or Look What the Wind Blew In, which is even more obscure.
But it’s great to have the guys calling the shots like that because that really keeps you on your toes.
RM: So different sets from different eras sounds like a distinct possibility.
BD: There is absolutely no problem in doing different songs from different eras.
I know it’s called Alive And Dangerous but we do put other Lizzy songs in that were never part of the live album, just to keep the audience happy – in fact you might get a shout for a song from the crowd and Matt will look at us and say "yeah, let’s try that one" and we’ll go into it.
There are all sorts of possibilities going forward; that would be no problem whatsoever for this band.
I know it sounds like I’m blowing my own trumpet but once we put our minds to it and got into serious rehearsals, this band could do all the Thin Lizzy eras without any problem.
Right now we’re concentrating on the Fortieth Anniversary of Live And Dangerous, which pretty much ends at the end of this year, although we have no problem continuing that into the early part of next year as we have a lot of dates in the New Year lined up.
But after the Alive And Dangerous shows we’ll see what the future brings.
RM: Could part of that future include writing some original material? Given the camaraderie and chemistry that clearly exists within this band that would be both a positive, and logical, step.
BD: Well, what we have been doing over the last six weeks or so is going in to the studio and putting down some demos; we’ve come up with a couple of original tunes.
Now, that’s clearly not enough for an album [laughs] but we’re working on it so, yeah, that might be a way to go as well. We have all sorts of possibilities but we’re not taking away from the Lizzy angle of the band.
There will always, obviously, be lots of Thin Lizzy songs but hopefully mixed, eventually, with some original stuff. We’re hoping to have some of our own material out by the middle of next year.
RM: I have to say Brian, other than the obvious passion you and the band have for revisiting and performing the Thin Lizzy classics, it’s clear from this conversation you are also very enthused about this project.
BD: Oh I am, and was from day one. But then from day one we were steeped in luck – talking to Brian Grace, having him on board, then Brian finding Matt and Phil for me.
I also think our luck has continued this last year and a half and long may that continue, especially if an album of new material works out well for us. And hopefully it will work out well because what I’ve heard on the demos is massively promising – this time next year Ross I could be doing an interview with you because we have a new album under our belts!
RM: That won’t be a problem, I’d love to hear what this band could come up with; FabricationsHQ would get right behind that.
Meantime Brian thanks so much for talking to FabricationsHQ, enjoy the remaining Fortieth Anniversary Live and Dangerous shows and I'll catch up with you again when, wait for it, the boys are back in town...
BD: [laughs] Thank you so much Ross!
BD: The funny thing is when we go in to rehearsals Matt or Phil might call out a tune from the first couple of albums – Think Lizzy or Shades of a Blue Orphanage – and someone else will say "yeah, let’s play that!" even although it’s never been rehearsed before!
And that’s what happens with this band; someone names a tune and we just play it, or at least try it out, because there will be mistakes – but I’m the one making most of the mistakes! [laughter]
The other guys have played these tunes much more than me in other bands, or at Vibe For Philo shows – I haven’t played some of those songs for a long time so I’m relying on them, really! [laughs]
But that still happens, even now – we’ll be at a rehearsal for an upcoming tour or show and someone will call out an old Lizzy tune and we’ll have a go at it, just for fun and for a laugh; it might start with a something like It’s Only Money from Nightlife or Look What the Wind Blew In, which is even more obscure.
But it’s great to have the guys calling the shots like that because that really keeps you on your toes.
RM: So different sets from different eras sounds like a distinct possibility.
BD: There is absolutely no problem in doing different songs from different eras.
I know it’s called Alive And Dangerous but we do put other Lizzy songs in that were never part of the live album, just to keep the audience happy – in fact you might get a shout for a song from the crowd and Matt will look at us and say "yeah, let’s try that one" and we’ll go into it.
There are all sorts of possibilities going forward; that would be no problem whatsoever for this band.
I know it sounds like I’m blowing my own trumpet but once we put our minds to it and got into serious rehearsals, this band could do all the Thin Lizzy eras without any problem.
Right now we’re concentrating on the Fortieth Anniversary of Live And Dangerous, which pretty much ends at the end of this year, although we have no problem continuing that into the early part of next year as we have a lot of dates in the New Year lined up.
But after the Alive And Dangerous shows we’ll see what the future brings.
RM: Could part of that future include writing some original material? Given the camaraderie and chemistry that clearly exists within this band that would be both a positive, and logical, step.
BD: Well, what we have been doing over the last six weeks or so is going in to the studio and putting down some demos; we’ve come up with a couple of original tunes.
Now, that’s clearly not enough for an album [laughs] but we’re working on it so, yeah, that might be a way to go as well. We have all sorts of possibilities but we’re not taking away from the Lizzy angle of the band.
There will always, obviously, be lots of Thin Lizzy songs but hopefully mixed, eventually, with some original stuff. We’re hoping to have some of our own material out by the middle of next year.
RM: I have to say Brian, other than the obvious passion you and the band have for revisiting and performing the Thin Lizzy classics, it’s clear from this conversation you are also very enthused about this project.
BD: Oh I am, and was from day one. But then from day one we were steeped in luck – talking to Brian Grace, having him on board, then Brian finding Matt and Phil for me.
I also think our luck has continued this last year and a half and long may that continue, especially if an album of new material works out well for us. And hopefully it will work out well because what I’ve heard on the demos is massively promising – this time next year Ross I could be doing an interview with you because we have a new album under our belts!
RM: That won’t be a problem, I’d love to hear what this band could come up with; FabricationsHQ would get right behind that.
Meantime Brian thanks so much for talking to FabricationsHQ, enjoy the remaining Fortieth Anniversary Live and Dangerous shows and I'll catch up with you again when, wait for it, the boys are back in town...
BD: [laughs] Thank you so much Ross!
Muirsical Conversation with Brian Downey
Ross Muir
September 2018
Photo credits: Laurence Harvey (Brian Downey); Larry Canavan (band image)
Ross Muir
September 2018
Photo credits: Laurence Harvey (Brian Downey); Larry Canavan (band image)