Sound and Rhythmic Vision
Muirsical Conversation with Wayne Proctor
Muirsical Conversation with Wayne Proctor
Wayne Proctor is a highly respected and multiple award winning drummer (four British Blues Best Drummer nods and a place in the British Blues Hall of Fame) who gets so deep into the pocket of a groove that he damn near has to climb back out for the next number.
Nor does he simply lay down a rhythm or produce a percussive beat – he’s in the rhythm and making those beats breathe.
But the King King drummer’s skills behind a kit are matched by his skills at the production desk and the mixing console – as part of House of Tone Wayne Proctor has become a sought after producer with an ear for audio mixing that’s as sharp and precise as his hands and feet are on a set of drums.
Wayne sat down with FabricationsHQ for an in depth and detailed talk about the art of, and his love for, drumming and production, but started by confirming drums were not his first instrument of choice.
Nor even the second…
Ross Muir: I’d like to start by travelling back to when the music bug bit and you first picked up a guitar then a a set of drum sticks…
Wayne Proctor: Actually my very first instrument, believe it or not, was the Hammond organ!
I’ve tended to say piano in prior interviews but it was the Hammond – my nan had one of the classic Hammond home organs and where most kids at three or four years old would probably just bash away on the keys I was actually starting to mimic what my nan was doing.
So that was, genuinely, my first musical instrument.
RM: That’s interesting; the mimicking points to your ear for music and sound developing even then.
I have to admit I thought your first instrument was guitar.
WP: When we later moved house all the kids at the school I moved to were huge fans of Status Quo so that got me in to wanting to play guitar. When I was seven I had guitar lessons for about three months; I then went on to play guitar – very seriously – for about eight years.
Now, at that school, they were very big on music; they had various instruments including a drum kit and we had a school band. After school a whole bunch of us who played would go off to watch the same concert, which was Eric Clapton and Friends at the Birmingham NEC.
That’s the one with Clapton, Phil Collins, Nathan East and Greg Phillinganes.
RM: That’s become quite the classic concert with none-too-shabby a line up. How old were you then?
WP: We were all twelve or thirteen. We would watch that concert relentlessly; it became our Bible.
Watching Phil Collins play that show started to make me really understand drums and what drummers did; I remember being very drawn to the way he played.
In fact during my music exams I played drums to my own compositions and it got to the stage where I was even programming drum machines! I had this little Roland TR808, with sixteen pads on it, and I was programming all these grooves and drum fills; we would do the whole of Layla, Sunshine of Your Love and Badge that way because I could programme identically to what I heard on those tracks.
But then I thought that’s what everyone did – I was totally unaware that it was kind of unique to be doing that sort of drum programming at twelve years old!
RM: But guitar was still your instrument of choice at this stage?
WP: Yeah, although my guitar teacher was also a drummer and I would be playing rhythm because I was never really a soloist, which ties in to how I play drums.
On guitar I’m playing chords and on the drums I’m playing grooves – making it about the song and not about the showboating.
RM: No, indeed; you are a true groove drummer, not a "fills and thrills" drummer.
Not that you can’t go there if needs be.
WP: It’s about putting the extra stuff in where it needs to be, that’s the biggest thing I’ve learned, because you can’t just groove your way through everything.
If it’s vocal I want to support it, so you mark that section appropriately – but every song is different.
I always try to create idiosyncrasies for each song, to the degree that you know where you are in the song from the drum groove; a certain groove – or a drum fill – will identify that you are about to go to the second chorus, for example.
I also hear things in not just a rhythmical way but by their separate parts and their structure; that all sowed the seeds for going on to play the drums professionally and everything I do now in production.
RM: And that guitar to drums transition?
WP: When I was fifteen. My guitar teacher had a band and they needed a drummer.
He said to me "if you can programme a drum machine like that you can play the drums" to which I said
"erm, does it really work like that?" [laughs].
But I knew I could kind of play – although I didn’t have any technique – so thought "well, this is the perfect way to start, in a band and taking lessons."
Next thing I’m in a band playing drums three or four times a week while also doing my GCSE’s and earning quite a lot of money, certainly for a fifteen year old.
RM: Which all points to an emerging, or budding, talent.
WP: Well that’s certainly when playing guitar took a step back and the drums took over.
I did those gigs for about two years and then bought my first kit from a music shop in Nottingham; they had offered me a job after I did my work experience with them.
During that time, working in the shop, I met another drum teacher and started taking lessons with him; so slowly but surely everything was moving towards the drums and the guitar gear started to be sold off.
The Fender Strats, Telecasters, pedals and amps were being swapped for snare drums, cymbals and all the paraphernalia that goes with a drum kit!
RM: And suddenly you’re a drummer.
WP: And suddenly I’m a drummer [laughs]. I was thinking "so this is what I do now then is it? A drummer by night and working through the day in a shop."
But by working there I met a lot of musicians, including Aynsley Lister.
RM: That shop meet-up is what led to you working Aynsley?
WP: Yeah. When Aynsley came in to the shop he was looking for a drummer; his own drummer wasn’t available so I did a Wedding and a working men’s club with him.
This was really early days for Aynsley, way before he was signed, but he still had the biggest drum kit in the world! I had six toms and there were two China cymbals – nothing like it is now [laughs] – but after the first gig he came up to me and said "I really like all that fiddly stuff you do, Wayne!" and I was thinking "What! Me, fiddly?" because I just couldn’t imagine playing that way [laughs].
But obviously I had been doing loads of fills and other things on such a large kit and that stayed in Aynsley’s head, because when it came to needing a new drummer he phoned me to ask if I’d be interested.
I started working with Aynsley when I was nineteen and within three months, in March of 1998, we did showcase gig for Thomas Ruf of Ruf Records.
Thomas signed him and one year later I left the nine-to-five to become a drummer!
RM: And of course you worked with Aynsley again not too long ago on his most recent album, Home.
WP: That's right. I played on the album and co-produced it with Aynsley.
Nor does he simply lay down a rhythm or produce a percussive beat – he’s in the rhythm and making those beats breathe.
But the King King drummer’s skills behind a kit are matched by his skills at the production desk and the mixing console – as part of House of Tone Wayne Proctor has become a sought after producer with an ear for audio mixing that’s as sharp and precise as his hands and feet are on a set of drums.
Wayne sat down with FabricationsHQ for an in depth and detailed talk about the art of, and his love for, drumming and production, but started by confirming drums were not his first instrument of choice.
Nor even the second…
Ross Muir: I’d like to start by travelling back to when the music bug bit and you first picked up a guitar then a a set of drum sticks…
Wayne Proctor: Actually my very first instrument, believe it or not, was the Hammond organ!
I’ve tended to say piano in prior interviews but it was the Hammond – my nan had one of the classic Hammond home organs and where most kids at three or four years old would probably just bash away on the keys I was actually starting to mimic what my nan was doing.
So that was, genuinely, my first musical instrument.
RM: That’s interesting; the mimicking points to your ear for music and sound developing even then.
I have to admit I thought your first instrument was guitar.
WP: When we later moved house all the kids at the school I moved to were huge fans of Status Quo so that got me in to wanting to play guitar. When I was seven I had guitar lessons for about three months; I then went on to play guitar – very seriously – for about eight years.
Now, at that school, they were very big on music; they had various instruments including a drum kit and we had a school band. After school a whole bunch of us who played would go off to watch the same concert, which was Eric Clapton and Friends at the Birmingham NEC.
That’s the one with Clapton, Phil Collins, Nathan East and Greg Phillinganes.
RM: That’s become quite the classic concert with none-too-shabby a line up. How old were you then?
WP: We were all twelve or thirteen. We would watch that concert relentlessly; it became our Bible.
Watching Phil Collins play that show started to make me really understand drums and what drummers did; I remember being very drawn to the way he played.
In fact during my music exams I played drums to my own compositions and it got to the stage where I was even programming drum machines! I had this little Roland TR808, with sixteen pads on it, and I was programming all these grooves and drum fills; we would do the whole of Layla, Sunshine of Your Love and Badge that way because I could programme identically to what I heard on those tracks.
But then I thought that’s what everyone did – I was totally unaware that it was kind of unique to be doing that sort of drum programming at twelve years old!
RM: But guitar was still your instrument of choice at this stage?
WP: Yeah, although my guitar teacher was also a drummer and I would be playing rhythm because I was never really a soloist, which ties in to how I play drums.
On guitar I’m playing chords and on the drums I’m playing grooves – making it about the song and not about the showboating.
RM: No, indeed; you are a true groove drummer, not a "fills and thrills" drummer.
Not that you can’t go there if needs be.
WP: It’s about putting the extra stuff in where it needs to be, that’s the biggest thing I’ve learned, because you can’t just groove your way through everything.
If it’s vocal I want to support it, so you mark that section appropriately – but every song is different.
I always try to create idiosyncrasies for each song, to the degree that you know where you are in the song from the drum groove; a certain groove – or a drum fill – will identify that you are about to go to the second chorus, for example.
I also hear things in not just a rhythmical way but by their separate parts and their structure; that all sowed the seeds for going on to play the drums professionally and everything I do now in production.
RM: And that guitar to drums transition?
WP: When I was fifteen. My guitar teacher had a band and they needed a drummer.
He said to me "if you can programme a drum machine like that you can play the drums" to which I said
"erm, does it really work like that?" [laughs].
But I knew I could kind of play – although I didn’t have any technique – so thought "well, this is the perfect way to start, in a band and taking lessons."
Next thing I’m in a band playing drums three or four times a week while also doing my GCSE’s and earning quite a lot of money, certainly for a fifteen year old.
RM: Which all points to an emerging, or budding, talent.
WP: Well that’s certainly when playing guitar took a step back and the drums took over.
I did those gigs for about two years and then bought my first kit from a music shop in Nottingham; they had offered me a job after I did my work experience with them.
During that time, working in the shop, I met another drum teacher and started taking lessons with him; so slowly but surely everything was moving towards the drums and the guitar gear started to be sold off.
The Fender Strats, Telecasters, pedals and amps were being swapped for snare drums, cymbals and all the paraphernalia that goes with a drum kit!
RM: And suddenly you’re a drummer.
WP: And suddenly I’m a drummer [laughs]. I was thinking "so this is what I do now then is it? A drummer by night and working through the day in a shop."
But by working there I met a lot of musicians, including Aynsley Lister.
RM: That shop meet-up is what led to you working Aynsley?
WP: Yeah. When Aynsley came in to the shop he was looking for a drummer; his own drummer wasn’t available so I did a Wedding and a working men’s club with him.
This was really early days for Aynsley, way before he was signed, but he still had the biggest drum kit in the world! I had six toms and there were two China cymbals – nothing like it is now [laughs] – but after the first gig he came up to me and said "I really like all that fiddly stuff you do, Wayne!" and I was thinking "What! Me, fiddly?" because I just couldn’t imagine playing that way [laughs].
But obviously I had been doing loads of fills and other things on such a large kit and that stayed in Aynsley’s head, because when it came to needing a new drummer he phoned me to ask if I’d be interested.
I started working with Aynsley when I was nineteen and within three months, in March of 1998, we did showcase gig for Thomas Ruf of Ruf Records.
Thomas signed him and one year later I left the nine-to-five to become a drummer!
RM: And of course you worked with Aynsley again not too long ago on his most recent album, Home.
WP: That's right. I played on the album and co-produced it with Aynsley.
RM: Do you still get a chance to play much guitar?
WP: I still play guitar, yeah. I have an acoustic at home and get to play a little acoustic on some of the records I produce. That’s fun; I still enjoy playing.
RM: You mentioned drum lessons a couple of times but I get the impression you were a self-taught drummer who then sought out lessons to improve, or build upon, your natural skill set?
WP: Totally. The drummer at school was a great influence and his own influences were the likes of Mick Fleetwood, Ginger Baker and Keith Moon; he had this really nice sixties feel to how he played.
I was forever hassling him about "how do you do this?" or "how did you do that?" and any opportunity I could get to sit and play with him I would take it.
I probably only had about two grooves and a couple of fills under my belt but I could always make it feel like I knew what I was doing – I was never in a position where I had to ask or think "what does this hand do?" or "what should this foot be doing?" [laughs].
As far as the first lessons I think I was about fifteen – in fact I think I started taking lessons when I was playing with my guitar teacher’s band.
Beyond that, when I realised that working in the public domain really didn’t suit my personality, or my drive to achieve, I enrolled at Drum Tech in London and started having lessons there from the age of twenty.
I studied there for three years with private once-every-two weeks lessons and that really sorted my fundamentals out, which was great because by this time I was playing about one hundred and fifty gigs a year with Aynsley.
I actually met Stevie and Alan Nimmo while I was out on the road with Aynsley – it’s funny to think that my whole career spans back to me working in that music store, meeting Aynsley there, playing with Aynsley only a few months later and then meeting Stevie and Alan at a festival.
RM: It’s certainly a serendipitous chain of musical events that led to you playing with Aynsley, working with The Nimmo Brothers, going on to become an integral part of King King and more recently working with Stevie on his solo album Sky Won’t Fall.
WP: But I must have been a very different drummer back when Stevie and Alan first heard me.
I must have been very fiddly and very techie [laughs] because there’s an on-running joke where, I’m led to believe, Alan and Stevie were standing at the side of the stage watching Aynsley’s set and they say [adopts Glasgow accent] "that drummer’s no' bad is he, though, eh?" [laughter].
Their then drummer Paddy, who had been to Berkley and was a bit of a jazz man, apparently replied "but that’s just chops, Alan; that’s all chops, Stevie!" [laughter]
My point is what kind of player was I, then, for Paddy to be saying "that’s all chops!" [laughs].
Anyway, they remembered me and after a few near misses of nearly playing on albums or a schedule not quite working out I eventually played with them on Picking Up the Pieces.
I worked with them on and off after that until Alan and Lindsay Coulson asked me to join King King.
RM: While there are some phenomenal or monster drummers out there, and those who can lay down a beat with metronome precision, the best groove drummers are laying down patterns or rhythmic refrains much akin to a guitarist playing a riff, or riffs.
But you go further – when I listen to you, or watch you, I hear or see a drummer not just playing a groove but a drummer in that groove. In the very rhythm of the song, if you will…
WP: That’s the goal; to make it breath and to make it feel.
Not everyone agrees with me on this but like anything you truly live in life, you start to experience the details of that life – what if feels like to live inside of something.
You start to appreciate that life more and you start to understand what your goals are a lot more.
RM: And the drummers that inspired or helped you to bring out those details?
WP: Steve Jordan, who has worked with Eric Clapton; John Mayer, who has sessioned with eveybody and on everything [laughs]; the late Jeff Porcaro of Toto; Phil Collins.
Phil was always a great drummer but there was a point where he just arrived, around the Duke era; his sound, his playing and his now iconic fills all came together, it all started to happen.
You would hear something and think "man, that’s a ridiculous thing to play!" but he was always a great groover; he knew how to make it sit right.
And when you do that – when you make it sit right and make it feel right – it creates something bigger than just a set of notes; it turns in to an atmosphere.
And you can write songs off of that atmosphere, whether it be a chord pattern or the groove you’ve just created.
Led Zeppelin’s When the Levee Breaks for example – the sound and production of that groove, that’s going to inspire something – a thought in your head or an atmosphere to build a song on.
Every gig is about trying to create an atmosphere, one that transcends the stage and goes out to the audience, to the degree that they are hopefully feeling what you are feeling.
RM: Indeed. To use the guitar riff comparison again – audiences can appreciate, get in to, or get off on, the riff of a song, but they can also get in to the very rhythm, or groove, of a song.
Sometimes without even knowing it.
WP: And without any of the bullshit or white noise. Not that it should ever be the same thing all the way through – I realised a while ago that you’ve got to garnish it with a little interest, make those transitions nice and smooth, move yourself through the gears.
But whatever your next gear is it still has to feel right, even if the groove is completely different; It wants to feel seamless, it doesn’t want to be jarred by a bad drum fill or a bad execution.
That all applies to production as well, or a mix, or talking to a singer about being in tune, the delivery of the lyrics – you don’t want anything that can throw you off being in that atmosphere; you want it to be as potent and as pure as possible. That’s when it has the biggest impact.
RM: A fabulous example of that atmosphere comes from a fabulous player and the Toto classic, Rosanna. That’s a brilliantly crafted piece of melodic rock but at its heart is an atmosphere and Jeff Porcaro’s groove. Rosanna doesn’t rock, it swings – and that’s down to Jeff.
Similarly, if you were to take the unarguable talents of Alan and Bob Fridzema out of the King King equation temporarily and just listen to what you and Lindsay bring to the table it’s so much more than just laying down a rhythm…
WP: Lindsay is solid as a rock. He’s got this lovely front end sound to his fingers, which comes across when someone is recording him; you don’t get that with every bass player.
He also gets such a great tone from his fingers that he’s very easy to mix and very easy to place in to a mix.
Lindsay also sticks to the book so I have a lot freedom to go nuts [laughs] but it’s my own sense of self- restraint and my mantra of "always play for the song" that’s paramount through whatever we do together.
And hopefully what we do together always sounds musical and always sounds interesting.
RM: And once you add in Alan’s voice, guitar and Bob’s keys…
WP: Everything King King does is based on decision – how it sounds is not a fluke.
Bass parts, keyboard parts, song writing, the arrangements… everything is thought through and everything has its own space, no-one is stepping on anyone else’s toes be that frequency wise or be that rhythmically.
I actually think that’s what gives us our sound because that approach, along with our personalities and how we hear rhythms collectively, is what gives us our idiosyncrasies.
WP: I still play guitar, yeah. I have an acoustic at home and get to play a little acoustic on some of the records I produce. That’s fun; I still enjoy playing.
RM: You mentioned drum lessons a couple of times but I get the impression you were a self-taught drummer who then sought out lessons to improve, or build upon, your natural skill set?
WP: Totally. The drummer at school was a great influence and his own influences were the likes of Mick Fleetwood, Ginger Baker and Keith Moon; he had this really nice sixties feel to how he played.
I was forever hassling him about "how do you do this?" or "how did you do that?" and any opportunity I could get to sit and play with him I would take it.
I probably only had about two grooves and a couple of fills under my belt but I could always make it feel like I knew what I was doing – I was never in a position where I had to ask or think "what does this hand do?" or "what should this foot be doing?" [laughs].
As far as the first lessons I think I was about fifteen – in fact I think I started taking lessons when I was playing with my guitar teacher’s band.
Beyond that, when I realised that working in the public domain really didn’t suit my personality, or my drive to achieve, I enrolled at Drum Tech in London and started having lessons there from the age of twenty.
I studied there for three years with private once-every-two weeks lessons and that really sorted my fundamentals out, which was great because by this time I was playing about one hundred and fifty gigs a year with Aynsley.
I actually met Stevie and Alan Nimmo while I was out on the road with Aynsley – it’s funny to think that my whole career spans back to me working in that music store, meeting Aynsley there, playing with Aynsley only a few months later and then meeting Stevie and Alan at a festival.
RM: It’s certainly a serendipitous chain of musical events that led to you playing with Aynsley, working with The Nimmo Brothers, going on to become an integral part of King King and more recently working with Stevie on his solo album Sky Won’t Fall.
WP: But I must have been a very different drummer back when Stevie and Alan first heard me.
I must have been very fiddly and very techie [laughs] because there’s an on-running joke where, I’m led to believe, Alan and Stevie were standing at the side of the stage watching Aynsley’s set and they say [adopts Glasgow accent] "that drummer’s no' bad is he, though, eh?" [laughter].
Their then drummer Paddy, who had been to Berkley and was a bit of a jazz man, apparently replied "but that’s just chops, Alan; that’s all chops, Stevie!" [laughter]
My point is what kind of player was I, then, for Paddy to be saying "that’s all chops!" [laughs].
Anyway, they remembered me and after a few near misses of nearly playing on albums or a schedule not quite working out I eventually played with them on Picking Up the Pieces.
I worked with them on and off after that until Alan and Lindsay Coulson asked me to join King King.
RM: While there are some phenomenal or monster drummers out there, and those who can lay down a beat with metronome precision, the best groove drummers are laying down patterns or rhythmic refrains much akin to a guitarist playing a riff, or riffs.
But you go further – when I listen to you, or watch you, I hear or see a drummer not just playing a groove but a drummer in that groove. In the very rhythm of the song, if you will…
WP: That’s the goal; to make it breath and to make it feel.
Not everyone agrees with me on this but like anything you truly live in life, you start to experience the details of that life – what if feels like to live inside of something.
You start to appreciate that life more and you start to understand what your goals are a lot more.
RM: And the drummers that inspired or helped you to bring out those details?
WP: Steve Jordan, who has worked with Eric Clapton; John Mayer, who has sessioned with eveybody and on everything [laughs]; the late Jeff Porcaro of Toto; Phil Collins.
Phil was always a great drummer but there was a point where he just arrived, around the Duke era; his sound, his playing and his now iconic fills all came together, it all started to happen.
You would hear something and think "man, that’s a ridiculous thing to play!" but he was always a great groover; he knew how to make it sit right.
And when you do that – when you make it sit right and make it feel right – it creates something bigger than just a set of notes; it turns in to an atmosphere.
And you can write songs off of that atmosphere, whether it be a chord pattern or the groove you’ve just created.
Led Zeppelin’s When the Levee Breaks for example – the sound and production of that groove, that’s going to inspire something – a thought in your head or an atmosphere to build a song on.
Every gig is about trying to create an atmosphere, one that transcends the stage and goes out to the audience, to the degree that they are hopefully feeling what you are feeling.
RM: Indeed. To use the guitar riff comparison again – audiences can appreciate, get in to, or get off on, the riff of a song, but they can also get in to the very rhythm, or groove, of a song.
Sometimes without even knowing it.
WP: And without any of the bullshit or white noise. Not that it should ever be the same thing all the way through – I realised a while ago that you’ve got to garnish it with a little interest, make those transitions nice and smooth, move yourself through the gears.
But whatever your next gear is it still has to feel right, even if the groove is completely different; It wants to feel seamless, it doesn’t want to be jarred by a bad drum fill or a bad execution.
That all applies to production as well, or a mix, or talking to a singer about being in tune, the delivery of the lyrics – you don’t want anything that can throw you off being in that atmosphere; you want it to be as potent and as pure as possible. That’s when it has the biggest impact.
RM: A fabulous example of that atmosphere comes from a fabulous player and the Toto classic, Rosanna. That’s a brilliantly crafted piece of melodic rock but at its heart is an atmosphere and Jeff Porcaro’s groove. Rosanna doesn’t rock, it swings – and that’s down to Jeff.
Similarly, if you were to take the unarguable talents of Alan and Bob Fridzema out of the King King equation temporarily and just listen to what you and Lindsay bring to the table it’s so much more than just laying down a rhythm…
WP: Lindsay is solid as a rock. He’s got this lovely front end sound to his fingers, which comes across when someone is recording him; you don’t get that with every bass player.
He also gets such a great tone from his fingers that he’s very easy to mix and very easy to place in to a mix.
Lindsay also sticks to the book so I have a lot freedom to go nuts [laughs] but it’s my own sense of self- restraint and my mantra of "always play for the song" that’s paramount through whatever we do together.
And hopefully what we do together always sounds musical and always sounds interesting.
RM: And once you add in Alan’s voice, guitar and Bob’s keys…
WP: Everything King King does is based on decision – how it sounds is not a fluke.
Bass parts, keyboard parts, song writing, the arrangements… everything is thought through and everything has its own space, no-one is stepping on anyone else’s toes be that frequency wise or be that rhythmically.
I actually think that’s what gives us our sound because that approach, along with our personalities and how we hear rhythms collectively, is what gives us our idiosyncrasies.
Wayne Proctor, with his King King band of brothers Bob Fridzema, Lindsay Coulson and Alan Nimmo have,
through a shared vocabulary and exceptional talent, become the British blues rock band to see and hear.
RM: Your comment about how you hear rhythms collectively is telling because each of you seems to have a sense of the other musicians and their instruments – for example you playing guitar must give you a feel for what Alan is doing, or bringing, particularly if he’s playing rhythm.
WP: We all have similar vocabularies, even although we go in to different musical arenas.
Alan is very much into Free, Bad Company, Whitesnake; Bob loves Dr John but also artists like D’Angelo; Lindsay is into bands like The Fabulous Thunderbirds; I’m more into the musician bands like Genesis, who are my favourite band, and Toto, who were always a really big thing for me.
I love those bands because these are musicians where you have to know how to play – you couldn’t blag it!
But through all those arenas is the common thread of our vocabulary, and that comes through in our music.
RM: Having found the perfect home in King King you’ve also now found a perfect home in the studio as part of House of Tone. In fact it’s fast heading to the stage where it’s becoming a fifty-fifty split between being known as an outstanding drummer and garnering the accolades as a producer and a mixer.
As a current example you’re mixing the forthcoming King King live album…
WP: That’s the plan! We’re just picking songs and looking at potential track listings right now because it’s such a busy time with other projects – in fact my own schedule is pretty much laid out for about the next nine months.
But over the summer months I’ll be working on the live album and mixing it with Steve Wright at his Y Dream Studios in Wales – but it won’t be rushed because I care for it and I’m passionate about it.
No one can outdo me in passion and energy, no one. If I know something needs work I will work at it and work at it and work at it, whether that be a production, a mix or even just a sound; I’m not going to accept something that’s just okay.
When I mixed Standing in the Shadows, the second King King album, I wasn’t quite full-time with the band but I was doing about ninety percent of the work. Alan didn’t really know what I could do in the studio though because he had really only hired me as a drummer so he was, quite rightly, saying "well, what does Wayne know about the studio?"
So I said "Just give me one song; Steve and I will do it for free and if you dig it then we’ll talk full album."
RM: Can you recall what the song was?
WP: It was the cover of Free’s Heavy Load; I remember we got stuck in to it on Boxing Day of 2012 and when we took it back everybody thought it was great.
Alan said "That’s it, you’re doing the album!" It was as easy as that and it was a done deal.
That wasn’t my first album – it was actually about the tenth album I had produced or worked on but the King King guys didn’t know me as a producer or a mixing engineer; they just knew me as a drummer.
RM: So, in effect, it was another audition…
WP: Yeah, there was a certain amount of time to convince them required but I obviously knew I could do it. Around the same time I was working on a singer songwriter record by Paul J Riley called Alba Place; it was getting rave reviews in a lot of magazines.
Every time we stopped at a Motorway Services on the way to or coming back from a gig, I would grab one of those magazines and say "guys look, there’s another great review for Paul’s album – it’s got four out of five stars here – you do realise I produced and mixed this album?" Just sowing the seeds! [laughs]
RM: And getting to play a little of that acoustic guitar you mentioned earlier…
through a shared vocabulary and exceptional talent, become the British blues rock band to see and hear.
RM: Your comment about how you hear rhythms collectively is telling because each of you seems to have a sense of the other musicians and their instruments – for example you playing guitar must give you a feel for what Alan is doing, or bringing, particularly if he’s playing rhythm.
WP: We all have similar vocabularies, even although we go in to different musical arenas.
Alan is very much into Free, Bad Company, Whitesnake; Bob loves Dr John but also artists like D’Angelo; Lindsay is into bands like The Fabulous Thunderbirds; I’m more into the musician bands like Genesis, who are my favourite band, and Toto, who were always a really big thing for me.
I love those bands because these are musicians where you have to know how to play – you couldn’t blag it!
But through all those arenas is the common thread of our vocabulary, and that comes through in our music.
RM: Having found the perfect home in King King you’ve also now found a perfect home in the studio as part of House of Tone. In fact it’s fast heading to the stage where it’s becoming a fifty-fifty split between being known as an outstanding drummer and garnering the accolades as a producer and a mixer.
As a current example you’re mixing the forthcoming King King live album…
WP: That’s the plan! We’re just picking songs and looking at potential track listings right now because it’s such a busy time with other projects – in fact my own schedule is pretty much laid out for about the next nine months.
But over the summer months I’ll be working on the live album and mixing it with Steve Wright at his Y Dream Studios in Wales – but it won’t be rushed because I care for it and I’m passionate about it.
No one can outdo me in passion and energy, no one. If I know something needs work I will work at it and work at it and work at it, whether that be a production, a mix or even just a sound; I’m not going to accept something that’s just okay.
When I mixed Standing in the Shadows, the second King King album, I wasn’t quite full-time with the band but I was doing about ninety percent of the work. Alan didn’t really know what I could do in the studio though because he had really only hired me as a drummer so he was, quite rightly, saying "well, what does Wayne know about the studio?"
So I said "Just give me one song; Steve and I will do it for free and if you dig it then we’ll talk full album."
RM: Can you recall what the song was?
WP: It was the cover of Free’s Heavy Load; I remember we got stuck in to it on Boxing Day of 2012 and when we took it back everybody thought it was great.
Alan said "That’s it, you’re doing the album!" It was as easy as that and it was a done deal.
That wasn’t my first album – it was actually about the tenth album I had produced or worked on but the King King guys didn’t know me as a producer or a mixing engineer; they just knew me as a drummer.
RM: So, in effect, it was another audition…
WP: Yeah, there was a certain amount of time to convince them required but I obviously knew I could do it. Around the same time I was working on a singer songwriter record by Paul J Riley called Alba Place; it was getting rave reviews in a lot of magazines.
Every time we stopped at a Motorway Services on the way to or coming back from a gig, I would grab one of those magazines and say "guys look, there’s another great review for Paul’s album – it’s got four out of five stars here – you do realise I produced and mixed this album?" Just sowing the seeds! [laughs]
RM: And getting to play a little of that acoustic guitar you mentioned earlier…
RM: On the subject of rave reviews there have been a number of glowing reports for recent House of Tone produced, or co-produced, albums such as Stevie Nimmo’s Sky Won’t Fall, Ben Poole’s Time Has Come and another singer songwriter release, Adam Norsworthy’s Rainbird album.
Just about every review of those albums, FabricationsHQ included, made mention of the sound being as important, and as good, as the music. That’s serious, and thoroughly deserved, kudos.
WP: Thank you man. I keep all those reviews in a file for reference, or to pull out a good quote, because at the end of the day I need those sort of reviews or quotes for my production C.V.
But I do feel I have got more mentions for these last few albums than I have for all the rest; that’s true of Stevie and Ben’s albums in particular.
In fact Classic Rock’s Blues magazine were kind enough to do a little sub-article off of the review of Stevie’s album; it featured House of Tone and said we were the "British Blues scene’s very own hit factory."
RM: I saw that; great little line and recognition of your studio accomplishments.
WP: That was always the goal – trying to create this confidence where if people saw the brand name House of Tone they knew they were going to get a great record before they even played it.
RM: Hence the name House of Tone I would presume – everything you need under one roof.
WP: Exactly. I was talking to a guy about three years ago, just after I did one of Aynsley’s albums, and he came up to me and said "have you heard Aynsley’s new album? It’s great! There’s a drummer on there that sounds just like you and the mix is amazing!" [laughter]
I obviously said "you do know that drummer is me and I did all the mixing and production on that album, right?" to which he said "no, I didn’t!" [laughs]
I thought "“okay I’m going to have to make this easier for people" because they just weren’t getting the connection that the people doing Aynsley’s album were the same people doing Oli Brown’s album or King King’s album and now Stevie’s album and Ben’s album… it’s been the same three man team for six years but no-one was joining the dots!
So I came up with the name House of Tone last summer and it really has helped; people now identify with it and realise it’s the same three people behind all those albums.
Just about every review of those albums, FabricationsHQ included, made mention of the sound being as important, and as good, as the music. That’s serious, and thoroughly deserved, kudos.
WP: Thank you man. I keep all those reviews in a file for reference, or to pull out a good quote, because at the end of the day I need those sort of reviews or quotes for my production C.V.
But I do feel I have got more mentions for these last few albums than I have for all the rest; that’s true of Stevie and Ben’s albums in particular.
In fact Classic Rock’s Blues magazine were kind enough to do a little sub-article off of the review of Stevie’s album; it featured House of Tone and said we were the "British Blues scene’s very own hit factory."
RM: I saw that; great little line and recognition of your studio accomplishments.
WP: That was always the goal – trying to create this confidence where if people saw the brand name House of Tone they knew they were going to get a great record before they even played it.
RM: Hence the name House of Tone I would presume – everything you need under one roof.
WP: Exactly. I was talking to a guy about three years ago, just after I did one of Aynsley’s albums, and he came up to me and said "have you heard Aynsley’s new album? It’s great! There’s a drummer on there that sounds just like you and the mix is amazing!" [laughter]
I obviously said "you do know that drummer is me and I did all the mixing and production on that album, right?" to which he said "no, I didn’t!" [laughs]
I thought "“okay I’m going to have to make this easier for people" because they just weren’t getting the connection that the people doing Aynsley’s album were the same people doing Oli Brown’s album or King King’s album and now Stevie’s album and Ben’s album… it’s been the same three man team for six years but no-one was joining the dots!
So I came up with the name House of Tone last summer and it really has helped; people now identify with it and realise it’s the same three people behind all those albums.
Stevie Nimmo, Ben Poole and Adam Norsworthy each delivered an exceptionally strong album in 2016.
All three releases also benefited from exceptional audio quality, courtesy of House of Tone Productions.
RM: There are occasions of course when you're sharing co-production credits with the artist.
WP: Some of the albums are co-produced, yes. Stevie’s was a co-production and obviously King King – it just wouldn’t be right for me to take full production on a King King album; we’re a band in every sense.
But there are other albums, like Ben’s for example, where it was a very thought-out record and needed a sole person to come up with where it would go, after discussing it with the artist – "what can we do with this?" or "where do you want to go with this?" that sort of thing.
But the sonic side of any album is a massive part of what we do, no matter who produces or co-produces.
If an artist has, say, a ten thousand pound budget they want an album that sounds as if they had a fifty thousand budget. We want to put audio quality back in to the industry because there’s too many sonically crap records being put out.
I had a few bad experiences years ago where I’d found myself frustrated with producers who weren’t really working or pushing the artist; they were just taking the money and not doing what they should be doing, leaving the artist with a huge bill that might take ages to pay off.
I wasn’t comfortable with that but with House of Tone and Superfly Studios we can reinvest into the scene and reinvest into the music, because the blues rock scene – and the music scene in general – has some great home grown talent that deserves to be developed and invested in.
Anyone that hears Ben’s album, for example, will be able to tell it’s a step up from where he was before – vocally, lyrically, playing-wise – there’s so much more depth there and so much more to listen to.
But that wasn’t just a matter of pressing the record button; that was also direction, suggestion and dropping ideas in so Ben could blossom in to the artist he’s obviously becoming.
RM: Ben and I had a couple of chats during the recording of Time Has Come and shortly after it was released; he made it quite clear it was a true team effort and, subsequently, the best thing he has done to date.
But then when you take the undeniable talents of Ben Poole – a musician who is not just a good guitarist but a great one – add your passion and drive to get the best out of a musician and the best sound for that musician… that’s a guaranteed winning formula.
WP: Ben, and other artists like Oli Brown, are hugely creative people but I just feel they need a bit of context, or shaped a little – that’s how they develop and blossom.
Stevie is a bit more "okay, take one, I’ll press record and off you go!" [laughs] because he’s a bit more developed as an artist and a fantastic songwriter.
Then there’s Adam Norsworthy, a true artist and a real talent. Making Rainbird with him was a real joy; proper singer songwriter songs, great melodies, great lyrics, interesting arrangements and orchestrations. I also played on the album.
Adam always gives me so much to work with as a producer and I'm pleased to say we’ll be starting work on the follow up to Rainbird later this year. Everyone reading this should definitely check him out.
All three releases also benefited from exceptional audio quality, courtesy of House of Tone Productions.
RM: There are occasions of course when you're sharing co-production credits with the artist.
WP: Some of the albums are co-produced, yes. Stevie’s was a co-production and obviously King King – it just wouldn’t be right for me to take full production on a King King album; we’re a band in every sense.
But there are other albums, like Ben’s for example, where it was a very thought-out record and needed a sole person to come up with where it would go, after discussing it with the artist – "what can we do with this?" or "where do you want to go with this?" that sort of thing.
But the sonic side of any album is a massive part of what we do, no matter who produces or co-produces.
If an artist has, say, a ten thousand pound budget they want an album that sounds as if they had a fifty thousand budget. We want to put audio quality back in to the industry because there’s too many sonically crap records being put out.
I had a few bad experiences years ago where I’d found myself frustrated with producers who weren’t really working or pushing the artist; they were just taking the money and not doing what they should be doing, leaving the artist with a huge bill that might take ages to pay off.
I wasn’t comfortable with that but with House of Tone and Superfly Studios we can reinvest into the scene and reinvest into the music, because the blues rock scene – and the music scene in general – has some great home grown talent that deserves to be developed and invested in.
Anyone that hears Ben’s album, for example, will be able to tell it’s a step up from where he was before – vocally, lyrically, playing-wise – there’s so much more depth there and so much more to listen to.
But that wasn’t just a matter of pressing the record button; that was also direction, suggestion and dropping ideas in so Ben could blossom in to the artist he’s obviously becoming.
RM: Ben and I had a couple of chats during the recording of Time Has Come and shortly after it was released; he made it quite clear it was a true team effort and, subsequently, the best thing he has done to date.
But then when you take the undeniable talents of Ben Poole – a musician who is not just a good guitarist but a great one – add your passion and drive to get the best out of a musician and the best sound for that musician… that’s a guaranteed winning formula.
WP: Ben, and other artists like Oli Brown, are hugely creative people but I just feel they need a bit of context, or shaped a little – that’s how they develop and blossom.
Stevie is a bit more "okay, take one, I’ll press record and off you go!" [laughs] because he’s a bit more developed as an artist and a fantastic songwriter.
Then there’s Adam Norsworthy, a true artist and a real talent. Making Rainbird with him was a real joy; proper singer songwriter songs, great melodies, great lyrics, interesting arrangements and orchestrations. I also played on the album.
Adam always gives me so much to work with as a producer and I'm pleased to say we’ll be starting work on the follow up to Rainbird later this year. Everyone reading this should definitely check him out.
RM: Keeping to the subject of production and sound, do you feel your rhythmic ear helps your producer’s ear? In other words is the way you break down drum parts and build them back up similar to the way you break down and build up audio parts?
WP: Absolutely. I’ve got a very methodical brain anyway so I hear things in parts, or layers, like sections of orchestration – I never hear just a drum part, I’m listening for what everyone else is doing.
And once you have your core band you’re then listening for opposing rhythms, opposing melodies, things that can give the music layers. The listener is being given something that has depth in the mix and in the material; you’re constantly rewarded as a listener to the extent that you want to go back and listen again. Because if you don’t want to go back to it you obviously don’t have any enthusiasm for it and you’re clearly not going to get any enthusiasm for it.
You want an album that you’re going to go back to again and again and say "wow, that’s an amazing vocal" or "that’s a great lyric" or "listen to that great snare drum sound!"
I want all those things and as a multi-faceted musician I get off on all those elements – I’m very much a lyric person too so I’m always trying to create an atmosphere for a lyric.
So, yes, rhythmically, as a drummer, it certainly helps but having been a guitarist first that established my harmonic knowledge and knowledge of chords.
Bob Fridzema has great chordal knowledge, well above where I am, but I still know how to suggest something to Bob where he will understand me rather than looking at me like a dog that’s been shown a card trick or saying to me "what are you talking about?" [laughter].
RM: That has to be such a boon when it comes to production, sound, arrangement, creativity – the fact you are on the same page, the same wavelength.
WP: Bob and I have worked together on several albums and it really has got to the stage where I know how to explain what I want from him and he immediately gets it – but then Bob’s a brilliant player and in King King we’re all tied in to each other; I don’t know where one part finishes and the next bit starts.
RM: Your passion to get it right means, clearly, you’re not a first take man…
WP: I love the idea of the search for the right sound, the right arrangement, the right take.
Some people are first take sort of guys but that’s not me; I work through the process and while we will get stuff wrong I actually like that! I want to investigate, I want to see and hear what works and what doesn’t.
Let's throw some stuff against the wall and see what sticks – and then watch to see how that inspires the musicians in the room, whether that be a band or a bunch of session players.
You want that input, you want it to be a nice, open arena so that everyone can get excited about what you’re doing – if someone puts an idea forward you don’t want to shut them down, you don’t say "that’s shit; that’s never going to work."
You say "okay, yeah, let’s try that" because then you can say "I really like that bit but this second part, what if we do this instead…" and the response is usually "yeah I like that, that’s better, but could we then do…"
Suddenly everybody’s fires are lit and you’ve moved the whole thing to another level; everybody has invested in it and everyone is emotionally satisfied because they have played their part.
There’s no egos involved and no-one going "oh, I just know better" or "that’s wrong; you can’t do it like that!" That’s all bullshit to me and you can’t make great records, or great music, with that approach.
RM: No, because that can lead to studio negativity and everyone pulling in different directions; that will come across in the production, the song writing, the arrangements, the final product.
Which is why your studio modus operandi works so well – you have the ear, but you also have the approach.
But it’s not just you of course; we’ve mentioned Steve Wright but House of Tone is a three man team…
WP: That’s right. House of Tone, as a production company, is me, Steve Wright and Andy Banfield.
I co-run Superfly Studios with Andy although technically it's Andy’s business.
Superfly was originally called Blue Water Studios and Andy was the engineer there. I had been recording there since 2004, taking bands out there to produce, and Andy and I became really good friends.
When Blue Water went under Andy took on the lease of the building but by that time I had quite a significant recording set up at home – much to my wife’s annoyance! [laughs]
I had a bit of a vocal booth in one room, a couple of monitors on a desk, a computer on another desk, pre-amps and microphones lying around everywhere, brass sections being recorded in the Living Room [laughter].
So when Andy took over the lease I suggested we should join forces – I sold my gear off, put my money in to the studio and through my connections in the industry managed to get us a few endorsements with reputable brands including Apogee and Focusrite.
Slowly but surely we built the studio and the quality up to the point where I feel what we have now is quite a formidable set up, as good as any major place out there.
We don’t have a big fancy desk but we do have a lot of great, esoteric gear. We have a Hammond in there as well as a Rhodes and a Wurly electric piano – and we’ve just added a Clavinet keyboard we bought from Bob.
The front end of it is great. It’s the digital age but we have a completely analogue way in to it all; everything has that real, nice audio richness about it.
RM: A man after my own analogue warmth heart. And Steve and the mixing side of the operation?
WP: I met Steve on a John O’Leary gig and we immediately hit it off. Steve offered to help out on a mix of the Paul Riley album we talked about earlier, and when he came in we just hit it off again!
Within an hour, we had the mix sounding better than three or four other people had managed; they never got close to what it needed and I was never happy with it. I was actually sitting their listening and thinking "I’m spending a fortune here and it just isn’t working!"
Anyway, Steve said "look, just spend the day with me and we’ll see what we can come up with" and, as I said, an hour or so later we had a great sounding mix.
Steve’s old school, he came up through Strawberry Studios. That was the original 10CC guys’ place and Strawberry’s producer and engineer Richard Scott was his mentor. Steve also knew Gil Norton, who went on to work with the Foo Fighters, Counting Crows; all these great alternative rock bands.
So Steve has this heritage and a proper old school way of approaching a mix while I’m the maverick with the vision! [laughs].
But it’s very much a fifty-fifty partnership; I’m not sitting at the back of the room telling Steve what to do, or vice versa.
RM: It does seem to be the perfect partnership – albeit one with a very interesting dynamic.
Could you take me through how the pair of you would approach a mix?
WP: Steve would start it off by going through the general frequencies, bringing in the drums and getting a rough balance together. He’d spend half-an-hour to forty-five minutes on that.
I would then step in to get the feel of the balance and the pulse of the thing. I’d start to put a bit of compression on, maybe distort a snare drum or put a bit of reverb around things until the drums started to feel alive.
Steve then looks at the general EQ’ing and taking out any nasty stuff and once we’ve reached that point I’ll start bringing other elements up – bass, keys, main guitar part, drums and maybe a bit of percussion.
Now we can really feel the song – it might only be a verse or a chorus we’re working on at this point but you’re starting to feel the excitement, you’re starting to feel there is a real sound being created.
Steve might then step back in to start working on the bass EQ and compression before I jump back in to look at adding some delays or reverb to the guitar, so it becomes this totally fifty-fifty experience.
RM: Classic case of the whole being greater than the sum of its parts.
WP: If you heard each other’s work on its own it would be good – even great – but we definitely complement each other in the way we work together.
We’re very similar people as well. My wife gets on with Steve’s wife insanely well so if we are all up at his
Y Dream Studios in North Wales it’s just like four friends getting together; except we’re working in a studio while the girls are walking around the Snowdonia hills!
It’s also lovely to have that sort of working relationship; there are no egos and no arguments, only excitement and creativity. We were there a few weeks ago, working on a song for the new Red Butler album and we hit a point where we just looked at each other and said "that sound’s amazing; that’s killer!"
We couldn’t wait to play it to the band because they have never heard themselves sound this good – and then they got excited about it! That’s just fantastic.
RM: That’s the result of, as you said earlier, having depth in the mix and the material, the enthusiasm and passion to make the best possible record – that all gets captured on the recording and ripples out to the end user, the listener, the fan, the band themselves.
You’re working relationship with Andy during the recording and production process must be much the same.
WP: The very same. With a lot of the albums I’ve done I’ve been engineer as well but it was getting to the stage, with my name being all over the credits for so many things, that it started to look like a solo album [laughs]. I thought that was ridiculous; I didn’t like that.
I decided I was more than happy with a production credit, a co-mixing credit with Steve, and Andy getting the engineering credit, because it really is this team of people and it allows that conveyor belt of bands or clients to keep coming through the studio – when a band or artist is at Superfly Andy can be engineering the recording while I'm up at Steve’s place working on a mix.
RM: The perfect power-trio line up...
WP: [laughs] It is a great team and the fact we never tread on each other’s toes is amazing.
Steve is incredibly prolific as a composer too – he has dozens of credits for films, commercials and TV shows including the themes for Brookside and Hollyoaks, music for Grange Hill; he’s currently doing a series for the BBC… you can’t believe the creative output of this guy.
RM: On the subject of that conveyor belt of bands and hopefully the next success from the "British blues scene’s very own hit factory" we have to mention Red Butler, who you touched on earlier.
That’s yet another outstanding young band who will undoubtedly make a mark on what is a very healthy British blues rock scene. How’s the album shaping up and how was it working with them?
WP: It’s actually almost finished; we just have the last few tracks to mix. The plan is to have it available at their gigs from September with an official release a few weeks later.
It's a great album, the perfect balance of modern sounds, traditional bluesy songwriting and an Indy scene sensibility; the album definitely has its eye set for greater things. It’s been a real pleasure to work with them and see them gain confidence and momentum in the studio.
RM: All bodes well. Their debut was very good but I think Red Butler fans, and blues rock fans in general, are already anticipating and looking forward to this particular album.
As we close Wayne I have to say thanks for spending extended time with FabricationsHQ and going well beyond the call of conversational duty – it's been a pleasure to talk to someone so passionate and enthused.
WP: With all of this, in everything I do, that’s what it’s all about – enthusiasm – and feeling that you are in the right place with the right people.
RM: Well you’re two for two there – you, Andy and Steve as House of Tone and with your band of brothers in King King. In fact that’s one of the major reasons so many, myself included, rate King King as the best British blues rock band out there. It's the camaraderie, the spirit; the right four people.
WP: I think that’s exactly what it is with King King, the right group of people.
Alan has said the same thing – this particular group of people just works; we have the right mentality, everyone gets to try things and we’re always investigating musically.
It all makes the music blossom and that, hopefully, gives you guys something more to get your teeth in to. It’s music with substance, depth and enthusiasm – all of which breeds the energy we create.
RM: We can’t end on a better note – other than a few minutes of those energy-driven ones you and the boys create.
WP: Thank you Ross, and thank you so much for this opportunity. Cheers!
Ross Muir
Muirsical Conversation with Wayne Proctor
July 2016
WP: Absolutely. I’ve got a very methodical brain anyway so I hear things in parts, or layers, like sections of orchestration – I never hear just a drum part, I’m listening for what everyone else is doing.
And once you have your core band you’re then listening for opposing rhythms, opposing melodies, things that can give the music layers. The listener is being given something that has depth in the mix and in the material; you’re constantly rewarded as a listener to the extent that you want to go back and listen again. Because if you don’t want to go back to it you obviously don’t have any enthusiasm for it and you’re clearly not going to get any enthusiasm for it.
You want an album that you’re going to go back to again and again and say "wow, that’s an amazing vocal" or "that’s a great lyric" or "listen to that great snare drum sound!"
I want all those things and as a multi-faceted musician I get off on all those elements – I’m very much a lyric person too so I’m always trying to create an atmosphere for a lyric.
So, yes, rhythmically, as a drummer, it certainly helps but having been a guitarist first that established my harmonic knowledge and knowledge of chords.
Bob Fridzema has great chordal knowledge, well above where I am, but I still know how to suggest something to Bob where he will understand me rather than looking at me like a dog that’s been shown a card trick or saying to me "what are you talking about?" [laughter].
RM: That has to be such a boon when it comes to production, sound, arrangement, creativity – the fact you are on the same page, the same wavelength.
WP: Bob and I have worked together on several albums and it really has got to the stage where I know how to explain what I want from him and he immediately gets it – but then Bob’s a brilliant player and in King King we’re all tied in to each other; I don’t know where one part finishes and the next bit starts.
RM: Your passion to get it right means, clearly, you’re not a first take man…
WP: I love the idea of the search for the right sound, the right arrangement, the right take.
Some people are first take sort of guys but that’s not me; I work through the process and while we will get stuff wrong I actually like that! I want to investigate, I want to see and hear what works and what doesn’t.
Let's throw some stuff against the wall and see what sticks – and then watch to see how that inspires the musicians in the room, whether that be a band or a bunch of session players.
You want that input, you want it to be a nice, open arena so that everyone can get excited about what you’re doing – if someone puts an idea forward you don’t want to shut them down, you don’t say "that’s shit; that’s never going to work."
You say "okay, yeah, let’s try that" because then you can say "I really like that bit but this second part, what if we do this instead…" and the response is usually "yeah I like that, that’s better, but could we then do…"
Suddenly everybody’s fires are lit and you’ve moved the whole thing to another level; everybody has invested in it and everyone is emotionally satisfied because they have played their part.
There’s no egos involved and no-one going "oh, I just know better" or "that’s wrong; you can’t do it like that!" That’s all bullshit to me and you can’t make great records, or great music, with that approach.
RM: No, because that can lead to studio negativity and everyone pulling in different directions; that will come across in the production, the song writing, the arrangements, the final product.
Which is why your studio modus operandi works so well – you have the ear, but you also have the approach.
But it’s not just you of course; we’ve mentioned Steve Wright but House of Tone is a three man team…
WP: That’s right. House of Tone, as a production company, is me, Steve Wright and Andy Banfield.
I co-run Superfly Studios with Andy although technically it's Andy’s business.
Superfly was originally called Blue Water Studios and Andy was the engineer there. I had been recording there since 2004, taking bands out there to produce, and Andy and I became really good friends.
When Blue Water went under Andy took on the lease of the building but by that time I had quite a significant recording set up at home – much to my wife’s annoyance! [laughs]
I had a bit of a vocal booth in one room, a couple of monitors on a desk, a computer on another desk, pre-amps and microphones lying around everywhere, brass sections being recorded in the Living Room [laughter].
So when Andy took over the lease I suggested we should join forces – I sold my gear off, put my money in to the studio and through my connections in the industry managed to get us a few endorsements with reputable brands including Apogee and Focusrite.
Slowly but surely we built the studio and the quality up to the point where I feel what we have now is quite a formidable set up, as good as any major place out there.
We don’t have a big fancy desk but we do have a lot of great, esoteric gear. We have a Hammond in there as well as a Rhodes and a Wurly electric piano – and we’ve just added a Clavinet keyboard we bought from Bob.
The front end of it is great. It’s the digital age but we have a completely analogue way in to it all; everything has that real, nice audio richness about it.
RM: A man after my own analogue warmth heart. And Steve and the mixing side of the operation?
WP: I met Steve on a John O’Leary gig and we immediately hit it off. Steve offered to help out on a mix of the Paul Riley album we talked about earlier, and when he came in we just hit it off again!
Within an hour, we had the mix sounding better than three or four other people had managed; they never got close to what it needed and I was never happy with it. I was actually sitting their listening and thinking "I’m spending a fortune here and it just isn’t working!"
Anyway, Steve said "look, just spend the day with me and we’ll see what we can come up with" and, as I said, an hour or so later we had a great sounding mix.
Steve’s old school, he came up through Strawberry Studios. That was the original 10CC guys’ place and Strawberry’s producer and engineer Richard Scott was his mentor. Steve also knew Gil Norton, who went on to work with the Foo Fighters, Counting Crows; all these great alternative rock bands.
So Steve has this heritage and a proper old school way of approaching a mix while I’m the maverick with the vision! [laughs].
But it’s very much a fifty-fifty partnership; I’m not sitting at the back of the room telling Steve what to do, or vice versa.
RM: It does seem to be the perfect partnership – albeit one with a very interesting dynamic.
Could you take me through how the pair of you would approach a mix?
WP: Steve would start it off by going through the general frequencies, bringing in the drums and getting a rough balance together. He’d spend half-an-hour to forty-five minutes on that.
I would then step in to get the feel of the balance and the pulse of the thing. I’d start to put a bit of compression on, maybe distort a snare drum or put a bit of reverb around things until the drums started to feel alive.
Steve then looks at the general EQ’ing and taking out any nasty stuff and once we’ve reached that point I’ll start bringing other elements up – bass, keys, main guitar part, drums and maybe a bit of percussion.
Now we can really feel the song – it might only be a verse or a chorus we’re working on at this point but you’re starting to feel the excitement, you’re starting to feel there is a real sound being created.
Steve might then step back in to start working on the bass EQ and compression before I jump back in to look at adding some delays or reverb to the guitar, so it becomes this totally fifty-fifty experience.
RM: Classic case of the whole being greater than the sum of its parts.
WP: If you heard each other’s work on its own it would be good – even great – but we definitely complement each other in the way we work together.
We’re very similar people as well. My wife gets on with Steve’s wife insanely well so if we are all up at his
Y Dream Studios in North Wales it’s just like four friends getting together; except we’re working in a studio while the girls are walking around the Snowdonia hills!
It’s also lovely to have that sort of working relationship; there are no egos and no arguments, only excitement and creativity. We were there a few weeks ago, working on a song for the new Red Butler album and we hit a point where we just looked at each other and said "that sound’s amazing; that’s killer!"
We couldn’t wait to play it to the band because they have never heard themselves sound this good – and then they got excited about it! That’s just fantastic.
RM: That’s the result of, as you said earlier, having depth in the mix and the material, the enthusiasm and passion to make the best possible record – that all gets captured on the recording and ripples out to the end user, the listener, the fan, the band themselves.
You’re working relationship with Andy during the recording and production process must be much the same.
WP: The very same. With a lot of the albums I’ve done I’ve been engineer as well but it was getting to the stage, with my name being all over the credits for so many things, that it started to look like a solo album [laughs]. I thought that was ridiculous; I didn’t like that.
I decided I was more than happy with a production credit, a co-mixing credit with Steve, and Andy getting the engineering credit, because it really is this team of people and it allows that conveyor belt of bands or clients to keep coming through the studio – when a band or artist is at Superfly Andy can be engineering the recording while I'm up at Steve’s place working on a mix.
RM: The perfect power-trio line up...
WP: [laughs] It is a great team and the fact we never tread on each other’s toes is amazing.
Steve is incredibly prolific as a composer too – he has dozens of credits for films, commercials and TV shows including the themes for Brookside and Hollyoaks, music for Grange Hill; he’s currently doing a series for the BBC… you can’t believe the creative output of this guy.
RM: On the subject of that conveyor belt of bands and hopefully the next success from the "British blues scene’s very own hit factory" we have to mention Red Butler, who you touched on earlier.
That’s yet another outstanding young band who will undoubtedly make a mark on what is a very healthy British blues rock scene. How’s the album shaping up and how was it working with them?
WP: It’s actually almost finished; we just have the last few tracks to mix. The plan is to have it available at their gigs from September with an official release a few weeks later.
It's a great album, the perfect balance of modern sounds, traditional bluesy songwriting and an Indy scene sensibility; the album definitely has its eye set for greater things. It’s been a real pleasure to work with them and see them gain confidence and momentum in the studio.
RM: All bodes well. Their debut was very good but I think Red Butler fans, and blues rock fans in general, are already anticipating and looking forward to this particular album.
As we close Wayne I have to say thanks for spending extended time with FabricationsHQ and going well beyond the call of conversational duty – it's been a pleasure to talk to someone so passionate and enthused.
WP: With all of this, in everything I do, that’s what it’s all about – enthusiasm – and feeling that you are in the right place with the right people.
RM: Well you’re two for two there – you, Andy and Steve as House of Tone and with your band of brothers in King King. In fact that’s one of the major reasons so many, myself included, rate King King as the best British blues rock band out there. It's the camaraderie, the spirit; the right four people.
WP: I think that’s exactly what it is with King King, the right group of people.
Alan has said the same thing – this particular group of people just works; we have the right mentality, everyone gets to try things and we’re always investigating musically.
It all makes the music blossom and that, hopefully, gives you guys something more to get your teeth in to. It’s music with substance, depth and enthusiasm – all of which breeds the energy we create.
RM: We can’t end on a better note – other than a few minutes of those energy-driven ones you and the boys create.
WP: Thank you Ross, and thank you so much for this opportunity. Cheers!
Ross Muir
Muirsical Conversation with Wayne Proctor
July 2016
Wayne Proctor Music website:
http://www.wayneproctormusic.co.uk/Home.html
Steve Wright / Y Dream Studios:
http://www.stevewrightcomposer.com/studio.asp
Superfly Studios:
http://www.superflystudios.co.uk
King King official website:
http://www.kingking.co.uk
Photo Credits:
Graham Milne (Wayne Proctor); © Rob Blackham (King King)
Audio tracks presented to accompany the above article and promote the work of the artists.
No infringement of copyright is intended.
http://www.wayneproctormusic.co.uk/Home.html
Steve Wright / Y Dream Studios:
http://www.stevewrightcomposer.com/studio.asp
Superfly Studios:
http://www.superflystudios.co.uk
King King official website:
http://www.kingking.co.uk
Photo Credits:
Graham Milne (Wayne Proctor); © Rob Blackham (King King)
Audio tracks presented to accompany the above article and promote the work of the artists.
No infringement of copyright is intended.