Still Fearless after all these years
Muirsical Conversation with Francis Dunnery
Singer, songwriter, guitarist, psychologist, astrologist and horse trainer Francis Dunnery has been in a retrospective frame of musical mind of late.
In 2008 he performed sets based around material from his 1995 album, 'Tall Blonde Helicopter', and 2009 saw the release of the 2CD 'There's a Whole New World Out There'. The latter primarily featured re-recordings of It Bites numbers, the band he co-formed and fronted from the early eighties until their split in 1990.
In 2010 Dunnery will be performing his second solo album, 'Fearless', in its entirety, when he returns to his native British shores for a string of U.K. dates in October.
Ross Muir: Francis, thanks for taking time out of your schedule to talk to FabricationsHQ. How’s life treating you these days?
Francis Dunnery: Very well thank you, I’m very busy, very healthy and very happy.
RM: In the introduction I mentioned that this October sees you touring the U.K. with full band performing your second solo album, 1994’s ‘Fearless’, in its entirety.
Why 'Fearless', and why now?
FD: I never got a chance to play the 'Fearless' CD live so I wanted to fulfil some of my goals before I run off into the sunset. There’s so much to do and so much that I want to do.
RM: ‘There’s a Whole New World Out There’ turned out to be my favourite album of 2009, and it wasn’t so much track selection that worked for me as the fact you musically re-interpreted all the previously recorded numbers. There seems to be a progression or musical ‘growth’ in your work, even when revisiting older songs.
FD: I think a forty-seven year olds perspective is more settled and far more musical than a twenty year olds perspective. Early It Bites had some wonderful adolescent energy but the 'Whole New World' CD was far more subtle, far more relaxed and more suitable for a forty-seven year old man. I wasn’t trying to compete with the early material because I think we did it perfectly well back then. I thought I brought something else to the tunes, something that I couldn’t have done when I was twenty years old.
RM: You've said before that songs don’t come to you on a “nine to five” basis and they come from somewhere else, and then all at the same time. Is this a period where there are simply no new songs forthcoming, or do you have a collection of songs that have yet to find their way on to a new album?
FD: I’m just waiting. I have a bunch of catching up to do with projects that I want to finish before I start anything fresh. There will be a new album in 2011 to celebrate my 25th anniversary. I'm putting together a band as we speak.
RM: Every time you play the U.K. you include a date or two in Scotland, and you clearly have a connection with the Scottish fans. That's probably fair comment for many other parts of the world, not least your native Cumbria and the North West of England, but the connection is quite evident.
FD: My dad was a Glaswegian so I definitely have strong feelings for the Scottish.
I have always been made welcome in Glasgow so I always go back to visit the people who have supported my life for twenty odd years.
RM: In relation to the connection with your fans, I believe a lot of it has to do with tapping in to your honesty, open-ness, and the fact that so many of your songs deal with real life and events that affect us all. Your solo album ‘Man’ is a good example in that regard, carrying strong personal and autobiographical traits.
FD: I’m certainly not everyone’s cup of tea and the deeper I explore inside myself the less inclined people are to follow me. People like to follow ego. For example, Mick jagger is an upper class English guy but his ego is a black blues singer. Ice cube is an upper middle class college student but his ego is a gun swinging gang banger. Most musicians are pretenders and those that aren’t pretending are usually dead. My ego was responsible for the It Bites years and for my first solo CD, since then I have been consciously trying to reach my core and discover who I am through my music.
Muirsical Conversation with Francis Dunnery
Singer, songwriter, guitarist, psychologist, astrologist and horse trainer Francis Dunnery has been in a retrospective frame of musical mind of late.
In 2008 he performed sets based around material from his 1995 album, 'Tall Blonde Helicopter', and 2009 saw the release of the 2CD 'There's a Whole New World Out There'. The latter primarily featured re-recordings of It Bites numbers, the band he co-formed and fronted from the early eighties until their split in 1990.
In 2010 Dunnery will be performing his second solo album, 'Fearless', in its entirety, when he returns to his native British shores for a string of U.K. dates in October.
Ross Muir: Francis, thanks for taking time out of your schedule to talk to FabricationsHQ. How’s life treating you these days?
Francis Dunnery: Very well thank you, I’m very busy, very healthy and very happy.
RM: In the introduction I mentioned that this October sees you touring the U.K. with full band performing your second solo album, 1994’s ‘Fearless’, in its entirety.
Why 'Fearless', and why now?
FD: I never got a chance to play the 'Fearless' CD live so I wanted to fulfil some of my goals before I run off into the sunset. There’s so much to do and so much that I want to do.
RM: ‘There’s a Whole New World Out There’ turned out to be my favourite album of 2009, and it wasn’t so much track selection that worked for me as the fact you musically re-interpreted all the previously recorded numbers. There seems to be a progression or musical ‘growth’ in your work, even when revisiting older songs.
FD: I think a forty-seven year olds perspective is more settled and far more musical than a twenty year olds perspective. Early It Bites had some wonderful adolescent energy but the 'Whole New World' CD was far more subtle, far more relaxed and more suitable for a forty-seven year old man. I wasn’t trying to compete with the early material because I think we did it perfectly well back then. I thought I brought something else to the tunes, something that I couldn’t have done when I was twenty years old.
RM: You've said before that songs don’t come to you on a “nine to five” basis and they come from somewhere else, and then all at the same time. Is this a period where there are simply no new songs forthcoming, or do you have a collection of songs that have yet to find their way on to a new album?
FD: I’m just waiting. I have a bunch of catching up to do with projects that I want to finish before I start anything fresh. There will be a new album in 2011 to celebrate my 25th anniversary. I'm putting together a band as we speak.
RM: Every time you play the U.K. you include a date or two in Scotland, and you clearly have a connection with the Scottish fans. That's probably fair comment for many other parts of the world, not least your native Cumbria and the North West of England, but the connection is quite evident.
FD: My dad was a Glaswegian so I definitely have strong feelings for the Scottish.
I have always been made welcome in Glasgow so I always go back to visit the people who have supported my life for twenty odd years.
RM: In relation to the connection with your fans, I believe a lot of it has to do with tapping in to your honesty, open-ness, and the fact that so many of your songs deal with real life and events that affect us all. Your solo album ‘Man’ is a good example in that regard, carrying strong personal and autobiographical traits.
FD: I’m certainly not everyone’s cup of tea and the deeper I explore inside myself the less inclined people are to follow me. People like to follow ego. For example, Mick jagger is an upper class English guy but his ego is a black blues singer. Ice cube is an upper middle class college student but his ego is a gun swinging gang banger. Most musicians are pretenders and those that aren’t pretending are usually dead. My ego was responsible for the It Bites years and for my first solo CD, since then I have been consciously trying to reach my core and discover who I am through my music.
Fearless, 1994. Fearless Tour, 2010. "I never got a chance to play the Fearless
CD live so I wanted to fulfil some of my goals before I run off into the sunset"
RM: You have said in the past that you are an artist that’s hard to like, primarily because you don’t play “the rock star role” and have more in your life than music.
I understand your comments, but those of us who just love good music and don’t follow or create heroes or idols will see those traits as something to applaud.
FD: I am extremely grateful that anyone would follow my music or pay attention to my life. I certainly don’t make it easy for people because I don’t have a strong ego right now. At this stage of the game I know too much about what’s ‘really‘ going on and most of us are not interested in what’s ‘really’ going on so it’s always a shock if I manage to sell tickets for my shows. No one who visits Disneyland wants to find out that Mickey Mouse is a shop lifter from Canada.
RM: Indeed (laughs). In 1995 you released the live album ‘One Night in Sauchiehall Street’ which was around the time your performances started to become more acoustic and solo based. It was also the beginnings of your transition to performer and raconteur, with your ‘conversationalist’ style. This included openly talking about personal issues including your alcoholism. An addiction you overcame.
FD: I just think the whole music industry can become utterly boring at times. All those clichés have been done so many times that I get bored. That’s why I used to start my shows with a cup of tea. Anything to avoid the usual stuff. Sadly, I've come to understand that everything has already been done so I better just get on with it. I love talking about my bald head, or my fat stomach or the fact that I’m getting older. It feels right. It feels honest.
RM: As regards alcoholism, a potential pitfall for those in the performing and touring business, there was the added danger of this possibly being a case of the apple falling not far from the tree, as your parents both suffered from this addiction. However you have also said they were “the greatest…kind, funny and gracious.” That conflict of personality must have been enormously difficult for a young child called Francis Dunnery to understand.
FD: It was only difficult when a therapist told me it was difficult. I only realized I was from a poor family when I went to Beverly hills. Most people make shit up to be sad about. People love a good sob story that they can waft about like a flag.
I didn’t know anything about all this psycho stuff when I was a kid so I just got on with it. There was nothing wrong. I had a great childhood. Sure, there were things that I didn’t like about my parents drinking but what planet are people living on who think life should be all nice? Life is duality. Every night there's a day, every up there's a down. There was nothing wrong with my life.
RM: One of the ways in which you dealt with the issues at home was listening to your Gabriel era Genesis collection, a solid constant and security. Music can be an incredibly powerful healing mechanism and escape.
FD: I loved the early genesis albums. It was pure escapism and fantasy.
RM: And Genesis would make an appearance later in your career, when you were approached in 1996 to audition for the band when Mike Rutherford and Tony Banks decided to continue after Phil Collins’ departure.
FD: In reality the job was never mine. I couldn’t sing the Phil Collins songs very well and I’m a bit too northern working class for old Mike the sea captain and admiral Banks to deal with. I was too close to the peasants for old Mike and Tony to deal with (laughs).
RM: You have always said your greatest influence was your brother Barry ‘Baz’ Dunnery, a noted and respected rock guitarist himself. Sadly, Baz died in 2008. I would surmise he wasn’t just an influence on you musically?
FD: My brother was a tremendous influence on me and still is.
RM: In recent years you have been a little critical of your It Bites era guitar playing, calling it immature. Do you still believe that to be true, or is it more a case of it being where you were at the time as a guitarist, in the context of It Bites music?
FD: It wasn’t immature, it was completely perfect for a twenty-two year old kid to be playing like that. I said it wasn’t very musical. It was more balls and intensity than musicality. I came up with some great parts when I was a kid but I don’t want to be playing like that now. I just don’t feel like that all the time anymore. If I want to be be intense I can be really intense but there are other colours to play with. Today, I can play everything that the twenty year old Francis Dunnery could play but Francis Dunnery the twenty year old couldn’t play a fraction of what I can play today. The collective ego liked the old style because it was obvious but I’m playing things now that are extremely interesting. But many people don’t realize it because their musical education falls short.
RM: It Bites were, for many, a cracking little band, and managed to incorporate hard rock, pop, and progressive rock into their sound. Sometimes within the same song. When the band split in 1990 it seems to have been a case of the group having run its course and simply drifting apart. However there was always the rumour of you wanting more creative control and wanting keyboard player John Beck out the band. Were there serious creative clashes?
FD: I was bored and it had run its course. I wanted to move forward both musically and personally. The only problem I ever had with John Beck was that he made everybody wait around at least two hours a day, every day, because he is chronically late. John's a great guy and I genuinely like him but after ten years of waiting you just can’t take it anymore. If you look at my output over the past twenty years you will notice that I have been incredibly prolific and active in all walks of life. I could never have done this if I was waiting around for John. Today, I have the freedom to do all the things I wanted to do without having to sit for two and three hours a day in a van waiting for John to get out of bed.
RM: It Bites reformed in 2006 with guitarist and singer John Mitchell, but there had been talk of a full It Bites reunion in 2003. Drummer Bob Dalton claimed the problems in getting the original line-up back together were your lack of commitment and geographical issues. The fact you live in the States is clearly a logistical problem, but you have always maintained you were positive towards a reunion. Do you just accept that it wasn’t to be?
FD: I’m eternally grateful that I didn’t get involved. But it was John and Bob's decision to go ahead with another singer, not mine. I would have done it but it wasn’t to be. We should let sleeping dogs lie.
RM: In 2005 your tours started to include “house concerts” and they are literally just that. Fans book you to play at their home, in front of a paying audience, and you perform with acoustic guitar. The shows include anecdotes, a little of your life, and some of your philosophies. It’s something you still do...
FD: I play 150 house shows per year. They are the most popular and successful thing I have ever done and they are liberating. They keep me healthy and they give me an opportunity to express myself in a meaningful way.
RM: The house concerts are also clearly an aspect of the ‘connection’ we touched on earlier, between artist and fans, as well as an example of Francis Dunnery being anything but a “rock star.” I'm guessing this doesn’t work at such a personal level if you turn up at the door in a limo with your ego in the passenger seat…
FD: I never was prone to rock star behaviour. I got a little arrogant during It Bites for five minutes but basically I’m not interested in looking down on people. It’s just not my thing.
CD live so I wanted to fulfil some of my goals before I run off into the sunset"
RM: You have said in the past that you are an artist that’s hard to like, primarily because you don’t play “the rock star role” and have more in your life than music.
I understand your comments, but those of us who just love good music and don’t follow or create heroes or idols will see those traits as something to applaud.
FD: I am extremely grateful that anyone would follow my music or pay attention to my life. I certainly don’t make it easy for people because I don’t have a strong ego right now. At this stage of the game I know too much about what’s ‘really‘ going on and most of us are not interested in what’s ‘really’ going on so it’s always a shock if I manage to sell tickets for my shows. No one who visits Disneyland wants to find out that Mickey Mouse is a shop lifter from Canada.
RM: Indeed (laughs). In 1995 you released the live album ‘One Night in Sauchiehall Street’ which was around the time your performances started to become more acoustic and solo based. It was also the beginnings of your transition to performer and raconteur, with your ‘conversationalist’ style. This included openly talking about personal issues including your alcoholism. An addiction you overcame.
FD: I just think the whole music industry can become utterly boring at times. All those clichés have been done so many times that I get bored. That’s why I used to start my shows with a cup of tea. Anything to avoid the usual stuff. Sadly, I've come to understand that everything has already been done so I better just get on with it. I love talking about my bald head, or my fat stomach or the fact that I’m getting older. It feels right. It feels honest.
RM: As regards alcoholism, a potential pitfall for those in the performing and touring business, there was the added danger of this possibly being a case of the apple falling not far from the tree, as your parents both suffered from this addiction. However you have also said they were “the greatest…kind, funny and gracious.” That conflict of personality must have been enormously difficult for a young child called Francis Dunnery to understand.
FD: It was only difficult when a therapist told me it was difficult. I only realized I was from a poor family when I went to Beverly hills. Most people make shit up to be sad about. People love a good sob story that they can waft about like a flag.
I didn’t know anything about all this psycho stuff when I was a kid so I just got on with it. There was nothing wrong. I had a great childhood. Sure, there were things that I didn’t like about my parents drinking but what planet are people living on who think life should be all nice? Life is duality. Every night there's a day, every up there's a down. There was nothing wrong with my life.
RM: One of the ways in which you dealt with the issues at home was listening to your Gabriel era Genesis collection, a solid constant and security. Music can be an incredibly powerful healing mechanism and escape.
FD: I loved the early genesis albums. It was pure escapism and fantasy.
RM: And Genesis would make an appearance later in your career, when you were approached in 1996 to audition for the band when Mike Rutherford and Tony Banks decided to continue after Phil Collins’ departure.
FD: In reality the job was never mine. I couldn’t sing the Phil Collins songs very well and I’m a bit too northern working class for old Mike the sea captain and admiral Banks to deal with. I was too close to the peasants for old Mike and Tony to deal with (laughs).
RM: You have always said your greatest influence was your brother Barry ‘Baz’ Dunnery, a noted and respected rock guitarist himself. Sadly, Baz died in 2008. I would surmise he wasn’t just an influence on you musically?
FD: My brother was a tremendous influence on me and still is.
RM: In recent years you have been a little critical of your It Bites era guitar playing, calling it immature. Do you still believe that to be true, or is it more a case of it being where you were at the time as a guitarist, in the context of It Bites music?
FD: It wasn’t immature, it was completely perfect for a twenty-two year old kid to be playing like that. I said it wasn’t very musical. It was more balls and intensity than musicality. I came up with some great parts when I was a kid but I don’t want to be playing like that now. I just don’t feel like that all the time anymore. If I want to be be intense I can be really intense but there are other colours to play with. Today, I can play everything that the twenty year old Francis Dunnery could play but Francis Dunnery the twenty year old couldn’t play a fraction of what I can play today. The collective ego liked the old style because it was obvious but I’m playing things now that are extremely interesting. But many people don’t realize it because their musical education falls short.
RM: It Bites were, for many, a cracking little band, and managed to incorporate hard rock, pop, and progressive rock into their sound. Sometimes within the same song. When the band split in 1990 it seems to have been a case of the group having run its course and simply drifting apart. However there was always the rumour of you wanting more creative control and wanting keyboard player John Beck out the band. Were there serious creative clashes?
FD: I was bored and it had run its course. I wanted to move forward both musically and personally. The only problem I ever had with John Beck was that he made everybody wait around at least two hours a day, every day, because he is chronically late. John's a great guy and I genuinely like him but after ten years of waiting you just can’t take it anymore. If you look at my output over the past twenty years you will notice that I have been incredibly prolific and active in all walks of life. I could never have done this if I was waiting around for John. Today, I have the freedom to do all the things I wanted to do without having to sit for two and three hours a day in a van waiting for John to get out of bed.
RM: It Bites reformed in 2006 with guitarist and singer John Mitchell, but there had been talk of a full It Bites reunion in 2003. Drummer Bob Dalton claimed the problems in getting the original line-up back together were your lack of commitment and geographical issues. The fact you live in the States is clearly a logistical problem, but you have always maintained you were positive towards a reunion. Do you just accept that it wasn’t to be?
FD: I’m eternally grateful that I didn’t get involved. But it was John and Bob's decision to go ahead with another singer, not mine. I would have done it but it wasn’t to be. We should let sleeping dogs lie.
RM: In 2005 your tours started to include “house concerts” and they are literally just that. Fans book you to play at their home, in front of a paying audience, and you perform with acoustic guitar. The shows include anecdotes, a little of your life, and some of your philosophies. It’s something you still do...
FD: I play 150 house shows per year. They are the most popular and successful thing I have ever done and they are liberating. They keep me healthy and they give me an opportunity to express myself in a meaningful way.
RM: The house concerts are also clearly an aspect of the ‘connection’ we touched on earlier, between artist and fans, as well as an example of Francis Dunnery being anything but a “rock star.” I'm guessing this doesn’t work at such a personal level if you turn up at the door in a limo with your ego in the passenger seat…
FD: I never was prone to rock star behaviour. I got a little arrogant during It Bites for five minutes but basically I’m not interested in looking down on people. It’s just not my thing.
"House shows are the most popular and successful thing I have ever done.
They give me an opportunity to express myself in a meaningful way"
RM: You have other passions besides music of course, with a diversity of interests including Jungian psychology studied to Masters Degree level, astrology, and horse trainer. The latter included studying under “horse whisperer” John Lyons.
FD: Training horses is definitely more interesting than waiting in a van for John Beck (laughs).
RM: Recording, performing and session musician. House concerts and horse trainer. Psychologist and astrologer. You have your own Internet based record label, Aquarian Nation, for your solo releases. That label is also distributor for other artists' albums, and you usually produce and guest on their recordings.
So finally, Francis, do you ever think about stopping for a bite to eat, or to grab a few hours sleep?
FD: I’m going to be dead in about forty two years, I’ll rest then.
RM: (laughs) Francis, it’s been great to finally catch up and a pleasure talking to you. Catch you on the Fearless tour...
FD: Good stuff, Ross. Have a fantastic day!
Ross Muir
Muirsical Conversation with Francis Dunnery
September 2010
Francis Dunnery website: http://www.francisdunnery.com/main.html
Muirsical Recommendations:
It Bites: Once Around the World (1988); Thank You and Goodnight - Live (1991)
Francis Dunnery: Fearless (1994); Tall Blonde Helicopter (1995); Man (2001); There's a Whole New World Out There (2009)
Photo Credit: John Edwards/ Flying Spot (porch photo)
They give me an opportunity to express myself in a meaningful way"
RM: You have other passions besides music of course, with a diversity of interests including Jungian psychology studied to Masters Degree level, astrology, and horse trainer. The latter included studying under “horse whisperer” John Lyons.
FD: Training horses is definitely more interesting than waiting in a van for John Beck (laughs).
RM: Recording, performing and session musician. House concerts and horse trainer. Psychologist and astrologer. You have your own Internet based record label, Aquarian Nation, for your solo releases. That label is also distributor for other artists' albums, and you usually produce and guest on their recordings.
So finally, Francis, do you ever think about stopping for a bite to eat, or to grab a few hours sleep?
FD: I’m going to be dead in about forty two years, I’ll rest then.
RM: (laughs) Francis, it’s been great to finally catch up and a pleasure talking to you. Catch you on the Fearless tour...
FD: Good stuff, Ross. Have a fantastic day!
Ross Muir
Muirsical Conversation with Francis Dunnery
September 2010
Francis Dunnery website: http://www.francisdunnery.com/main.html
Muirsical Recommendations:
It Bites: Once Around the World (1988); Thank You and Goodnight - Live (1991)
Francis Dunnery: Fearless (1994); Tall Blonde Helicopter (1995); Man (2001); There's a Whole New World Out There (2009)
Photo Credit: John Edwards/ Flying Spot (porch photo)